Poll: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2021, Yas Island - Race 22

[koolpc]

Toto cried Wolf! Lol

 

[UTmaniac]

This thread went a bit bonker while I was at work today, 200+ posts!

I hope Merc take it to court, to me it looks like a "slam dunk" that Masi didn't follow safety car restart regs...

He only allowed lappers between Max and Lewis to unlap themselves after Redbull spoke to him, when there were other racers a lap down further back.

The safety car didn't enter the pits a lap after than letting the lappers through.

Going by the regs, the race should have finished behind the safety car just like at Spa, Lewis should be the 2021 champ.

Let's see what Merc decide to do over the coming hours.

 

[DeliciousStorage]

The way it ended was 2 drivers racing as hard as they could and for once Max got lucky.

Luck didn't factor into it. Lucky would have been Latiffi crashing 2 laps earlier allowing enough time to clear all lapped cars and bringing the safety car in for 1 lap of racing. A race director breaking two rules to artificially manufacture the situation was not luck.

 

[Kenai]

On Perez.. he slowed Hamilton down enough for Max to go from ~8s behind to ~1s behind in HALF A LAP. It was a bit unsporting but he did the right thing for his team and it was some great racing.. even though I bet Lewis was spitting feathers inside his helmet following behind as he parked on the apex.

I don't think what happened with Perez was unsporting, it's a team sport and they played a team advantage.

On the contrary, i'd say Perez's effort there was one of the best bits of driving in the race.

Watching that sequence back as well makes it very apparent exactly why Lewis best defense against Max later wasn't to fight and compromise his line/speed at T5 but to use the slipstream ensure he was as close as possible to Max on the second straight and pray his engine got him far enough in front by T9 because whoever is front then, is borderline impossible to pass through the rest of the lap. Perez used exactly this tactic (with DRS benefit) to come back at Lewis and drop him back considerably through the last sector.

 

[Jono8]

Luck didn't factor into it. Lucky would have been Latiffi crashing 2 laps earlier allowing enough time to clear all lapped cars and bringing the safety car in for 1 lap of racing. A race director breaking two rules to artificially manufacture the situation was not luck.

yep. It wasnt luck. Mercedes made the correct and only call. if the accident was a few laps earlier, i imagine they would have pitted Lewis because it was likely the race would have a few more laps. Based on the actual rules, 5/6 laps wasnt long enough for everything to be sorted (ie for the race to be restarted with no lapped cars in front of Max).

 

[Scam]

Russell would rather crash than yield to Max..

I'd like to see it (I'd love to see it!) but what makes you so sure?

On Perez.. he slowed Hamilton down enough for Max to go from ~8s behind to ~1s behind in HALF A LAP. It was a bit unsporting but he did the right thing for his team and it was some great racing.. even though I bet Lewis was spitting feathers inside his helmet following behind as he parked on the apex.

Not taking anything from Perez (apart from the fact he drives for RB ) but that's all well and good but as it stands didn't affect the outcome of the race at all because of Masi's involvement. Safety car = no gap to Verstappen.

The damage is done to both drivers now whoever gets it officially in the end. And the only ones to blame for that are the FIA and Michael Massi.

I'm still angry, so still of the mindset that if no-one is coming out of this well at least Lewis should get the championship. He's the guy who drove fairer, wasn't gifted races like Abu Dhabi and Spa and on the whole has done more for the sport (on and off track) than Max will probably ever do with his attitude. I'd certainly like to look back on my time watching F1 and know that we saw a true great dominate the sport with 8 titles, rather than that annoying 7 level with Schumacher and 1 that was robbed from him.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Watching that sequence back as well makes it very apparent exactly why Lewis best defense against Max later wasn't to fight and compromise his line/speed at T5 but to use the slipstream ensure he was as close as possible to Max on the second straight and pray his engine got him far enough in front by T9 because whoever is front then, is borderline impossible to pass through the rest of the lap. Perez used exactly this tactic (with DRS benefit) to come back at Lewis and drop him back considerably through the last sector

If you had just been shafted out of a world title, would you have been thinking clearly?

I actually think the reason that Lewis got jumped in T5 is because Max dived from long back to make the move. Watch it again, Lewis goes to turn in and realises that he’s on the apex.

 

[Kenai]

If you had just been shafted out of a world title, would you have been thinking clearly?

I actually think the reason that Lewis got jumped in T5 is because Max dived from long back to make the move. Watch it again, Lewis goes to turn in and realises that he’s on the apex.

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at - others were criticising Lewis for not defending harder at Turn 5. I argued it wasn't really in his interest to do so as defending the inside hard would have massively compromised his exit speed, he'd probably still have got passed anyway and wouldn't be pressuring and tailing Max through 6 and 7 ready to try and pass on the last straight into turn 9. Watching Perez lose out earlier in the lap but repass into T9 and then become a rolling roadblock that was impossible to pass for the rest of the lap just underlines to me why the most important point to be getting ahead was T9, not T5. Staying ahead at T5 would have been a bonus but not if it meant compromising his exit speed onto the long straight.

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I think you misunderstood what I was getting at - others were criticising Lewis for not defending harder at Turn 5. I argued it wasn't really in his interest to do so as defending the inside hard would have massively compromised his exit speed, he'd probably still have got passed anyway and wouldn't be pressuring and tailing Max through 6 and 7 ready to try and pass on the last straight into turn 9. Watching Perez lose out earlier in the lap but repass into T9 and then become a rolling roadblock that was impossible to pass for the rest of the lap just underlines to me why the most important point to be getting ahead was T9, not T5.

Oh I fully agree but the fact remains he neither defended or expected Max to make the move when he did.

 

[adam cool dude]

Max was on brand new soft tyres and Lewis on 30 laps hards. Max would have passed him at some point regardless. Even a Haas would have likely given it a go.

 

[jaybee]

When Ham was drafting Max down the first of the two straights, for a split second I wondered if it would have been possible to dummy right then try to squeeze down the inside of Max. ON the replays it looks impossible but I wonder if a dummy to the right may have opened the gap just enough. I fully expect Max would have then moved back left causing contact at 200mph but imagine it came off and Hamilton did a Max on Max and then walked him off the outside of the track into the turn at the end of that straight. I guess the inevitable would have then happened on the next straight. Lewis was a sitting duck to any driver on the grid on brand new softs really I guess.

 

[KiNgPiN83]

I'm starting to think that Merc will end up dropping it because Hamilton will convince them he doesn't want to win the championship through the courts. It would be a massive shame because it's not really about Hamilton, it's about trying to preserve the integrity of the sport. Winning it through the courts would suck but it would be the least bad option, there are no good options. Allowing an illegitimate drivers championship to stand would forever be a massive stain on F1's reputation and likely turn many people away.

I'd be happy for them to take it to court whilst also taking changing the title winner off the table purely to give the FIA both barrels about their terrible decision making. Just to repair some of this damage.

 

[Jase]

Luck didn't factor into it. Lucky would have been Latiffi crashing 2 laps earlier allowing enough time to clear all lapped cars and bringing the safety car in for 1 lap of racing. A race director breaking two rules to artificially manufacture the situation was not luck.

Well did Max make that happen? the answer is NO so he was lucky that the race director made the decision he did.

You can read the rules whichever way you want, he may have interrupted them in a way that you do not agree with with but he did not necessarily break them. That is part of F1 unfortunately, it is a technical sport and not as easy a and b, often there are contradictions which is why in this season especially as the racing has been unusually close that there appears to have been more inconsistency, that will take a long time to sort out.

Whoever you support I think a lot of people would have felt robbed if it finished under a safety car.

Oh I fully agree but the fact remains he neither defended or expected Max to make the move when he did.

Martin Brundle said at the time he didn't expect Max to make the move when he did.

 

[jaybee]

I'd be happy for them to take it to court whilst also taking changing the title winner off the table purely to give the FIA both barrels about their terrible decision making. Just to repair some of this damage.

Appealing for them to admit they were wrong but still keep the wrong result is pointless for all involved.

 

[KiNgPiN83]

Appealing for them to admit they were wrong but still keep the wrong result is pointless for all involved.

I just feel like dropping it completely changes nothing.

 

[Slackworth]

I'd be happy for them to take it to court whilst also taking changing the title winner off the table purely to give the FIA both barrels about their terrible decision making. Just to repair some of this damage.

Appealing for them to admit they were wrong but still keep the wrong result is pointless for all involved.

I actually agree with KingPin on this. I don't think Lewis has any interest in the lawyers winning him the trophy - he'd rather do it on the track fair and square (within reason of the usual on-track squabbling which the FIA also need to deal with going forwards). His actions at the end of the race yesterday already showed he had accepted that was the end result rightly or wrongly (assuming he doesn't suddenly retire etc.)

However, Mercedes should continue the protest against the FIA out of principle in order to bring change but leave the 2021 season where it is. Ultimately though, the big issue here is the legal challenge will cost a substantial amount of money and a lot of mud slinging will be done - Mercedes Benz at the end of the day is a business with an image (again whether you like them or not) and will need to be fairly sure they can win once they've left the initial emotions from the track aside. Can't imagine Daimler shareholders will be happy with them spending 10s if not 100's of thousands of pounds on a whim because emotions are high.

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Toto has congratulated Max by text today. So pretty much confirms they have no intention to challenge who won.

 

[jaybee]

I actually agree with KingPin on this. I don't think Lewis has any interest in the lawyers winning him the trophy - he'd rather do it on the track fair and square (within reason of the usual on-track squabbling which the FIA also need to deal with going forwards). His actions at the end of the race yesterday already showed he had accepted that was the end result rightly or wrongly (assuming he doesn't suddenly retire etc.)

However, Mercedes should continue the protest against the FIA out of principle in order to bring change but leave the 2021 season where it is. Ultimately though, the big issue here is the legal challenge will cost a substantial amount of money and a lot of mud slinging will be done - Mercedes Benz at the end of the day is a business with an image (again whether you like them or not) and will need to be fairly sure they can win once they've left the initial emotions from the track aside. Can't imagine Daimler shareholders will be happy with them spending 10s if not 100's of thousands of pounds on a whim because emotions are high.

But they can't appeal with a subject heading "FIA are rubbish, please improve", they have to appeal the subject matter of "RACE RESULT". They will focus solely on circumstances surrounding this. All it will do is focus on the safety car procedures. The FIA don't need a court case to know they were **** this season. Any sane management of said group will naturally undergo internal review and look at rulings and procedures after this season regardless of the last race, as it needs reform clearly.

 

[Vertigo]

Toto has congratulated Max by text today. So pretty much confirms they have no intention to challenge who won.

I expect there's been some discussions with Mercedes corporate management who've decided that they've nothing to gain and everything to lose in pursuing it as it'd be a PR disaster for the company.

Also factoring that they did win the constructor's title (and the associated money) and that, as stated above, Lewis will have no interest in taking the title via the courts and it was always going to get dropped once everyone calmed down.

 

[mjt]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1470384019036594183