Woolwich serious incident

mithrandir · 23 May 2013 at 23:16

NZB said:
Not sure if this has been posted but The Mirror has a video up of the 2 guys being shot

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-attack-watch-shocking-video-1907772

Wow, he got pretty close.

Armed response definitely need a 'copter response team like HEMS.

asim18 · 23 May 2013 at 23:16

Xordium said:
No it is not protesting does not have to be violent? Or maybe it does if you are of a certain persuasion. The last time I looked peaceful protest seemed to work quite well.

Peaceful protest?

What do you think this is? a democracy? How naive can you get.

These are crazed extremists blowing themselves up and hacking soldiers and you want to have a "peaceful protest" against them

Kouba · 23 May 2013 at 23:20

w3bbo said:
The problem as you rightly state is context, which goes some way to explaining why so many atrocities attributed to Islamic extremists. Perhaps it is therefore fair to say the teachings in the Qur'an are too easily taken out of context. That blame lays solely at the feet of Islam. It should be the Muslim communities responsibility to ensure all who follow their chosen faith, ensure the teachings are correctly followed. Yet I do not see public Muslim protests against their own people when such atrocities are carried out. I see weak 'announcements' renouncing such behavior. No march, no visual appeasement. There is much more effort applied to spitting at soldiers returning from tours of duty, burning poppies and the British flag on remembrance day. Surely their efforts would be better spent calming the nation, proving how peaceful Islam can be rather than inciting hatred.

Hi there w3bbo, you are right in saying that the Qur'an can be taken out of context too easily, this is indeed very true. You see, the Qur'an is comprised of the Classical Arabic language (deep and rich in vocabulary) which means that in order to understand it, one must study it for a number of years. It is a fact recognized by the linguists of today that the Arabic language has the best ability to express wide and deep thoughts and to explain important subjects in short and precise words. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you can understand - people make the grave mistake of trying to understand the Qur'an from the get-go.

With regards to the Muslim communities having to take responsibility to ensure such atrocities do not occur. I'm not sure they are obliged to take responsibility as such. There have been many Muslim communities denouncing the events of today, with many stating that the perpetrators were not even part of their communities. Additionally, many Imams and Mosques have spoken loudly against the actions of the Woolwich murderers, need they do any more?

As for those who partake in spitting at soldiers returning from tours of duty, burning poppies and the British flag on remembrance day. What can I tell you w3bbo? The vast majority of UK Muslims oppose such actions AFAIK and want nothing to do with such characters. I think the group you are referring to are Anjem Choudary's group (which no one really likes anyway).

Ultimately, you are correct in the sense that the UK Muslims need a louder voice. When such atrocities occur, people need to know that the Muslims are against such incidents and that their religion does not teach nor allow such unfathomable events.

I sincerely hope you understand.

Xordium · 23 May 2013 at 23:22

asim18 said:
These are crazed extremists blowing themselves up and hacking soldiers and you want to have a "peaceful protest" against them

Never heard of Ghandi then.

badcompany · 23 May 2013 at 23:23

some protesting against this ie " No it our name" outside those mosques that harbor these idiots would go along way in allying peoples fears. Token verbal utterances are cheap.

Xordium · 23 May 2013 at 23:24

Kouba said:
When such atrocities occur, people need to know that the Muslims are against such incidents and that their religion does not teach nor allow such unfathomable events.

I think they do the leaders are very quick to condemn such actions. You seem to be a rather eloquent and knowledgable chap - have you ever gone into the places where these false messages are given and challenged the teaching in those mosques and universities etc? Just out of interest.

asim18 · 23 May 2013 at 23:29

Xordium said:
I think they do the leaders are very quick to condemn such actions. You seem to be a rather eloquent and knowledgable chap - have you ever gone into the places where these false messages are given and challenged the teaching in those mosques and universities etc? Just out of interest.

You cant just go into a crack house and tell everyone to simply stop being addicted to cocaine.

What makes you think one can simply walk into a terrorist meeting and start telling them to stop wanting to terrorise?

The crackheads will probably lob a bag of needles at you and the terrorists will lob a few bombs at you.

Xordium · 23 May 2013 at 23:31

asim18 said:
You cant just go into a crack house and tell everyone to simply stop being addicted to cocaine.

What makes you think one can simply walk into a terrorist meeting and start telling them to stop wanting to terrorise?

Because these are not terrorist meetings are they these are places of worship - mosques. The are perverting the message of the one true god and they are not doing it in some living room they are doing it openly and in public - without challenge. And I doubt they carry bombs everywhere not every can get advanced weaponry as quickly as you can.

gettothechopper · 23 May 2013 at 23:31

Is it bad that I feel better after watching that?

Merlin5 · 23 May 2013 at 23:35

Personally, I don't think the muslim community would ever be able to stop this sort of thing happening by extremists. Maybe reduce it but never eradicate it. They can educate as much as they like, but like in all walks of life, to do with religion or not, where the majority of people are good, there will always be unbalanced people ready to pull a trigger or wield a knife. And as long as the likes of Choudray exist to brainwash weak minded, uneducated, stupid individuals with nothing else in their lives, there will always be these incidents.

Kouba · 23 May 2013 at 23:37

Xordium said:
I think they do the leaders are very quick to condemn such actions. You seem to be a rather eloquent and knowledgable chap - have you ever gone into the places where these false messages are given and challenged the teaching in those mosques and universities etc? Just out of interest.

I'm afraid I haven't Xordium. I have heard that such environments can become heated if challenged and that unfortunately, it is not as simple as you may suggest. Additionally, one simply does not have the time, money and resources (as well as bodyguards) to challenge such groups. Furthermore, before challenging them, one must find them.. and how does one find such groups? With all due respect, It simply seems a bit impractical and somewhat unrealistic. I am not the religious police :cool:

Greebo · 23 May 2013 at 23:37

NZB said:
Not sure if this has been posted but The Mirror has a video up of the 2 guys being shot

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woolwich-attack-watch-shocking-video-1907772

Can't beleive the Mirror's take on it after watching the video. They made it out the other guy was doining a poincer movement and the two cops in the first car were luckily saved by other armed officers. The 2nd guy, albeit who had a gun, been so far away from the first car was less of a threat. The cops in the first car had loads of time to take him down themselves.

And I thought a woman armed cop shot them? It says the woman only had a taser and it was her male colleague who shot them????

Danthus · 23 May 2013 at 23:39

Standard practice to deploy a less than lethal option.

Amnesia · 23 May 2013 at 23:39

No1newts said:
For those saying "he deserved it, the British deserve it for being involved in the Arab areas"

Has anyone actually said that ?
I think Craterloads was posting to show some double standards but nothing more, I don't believe he or anyone else here is happy about terrorist attacks on UK soil.

cheechm · 23 May 2013 at 23:46

I'm sure many of you have seen this, but it's the first time I've seen this guy talking on the subject and I reckon he has it absolutely bang on. This basically sums up what the majority have been arguing in this thread:

Linky

C.R.A.Z.Y · 23 May 2013 at 23:47

Danthus · 23 May 2013 at 23:48

cheechm said:
I'm sure many of you have seen this, but it's the first time I've seen this guy talking on the subject and I reckon he has it absolutely bang on. This basically sums up what the majority have been arguing in this thread:

Linky

The fear of racism stops any serious political debate and that enables the likes of the BNP and EDL.

Frodo1805 · 23 May 2013 at 23:49

asim18 said:
You cant just go into a crack house and tell everyone to simply stop being addicted to cocaine.

What makes you think one can simply walk into a terrorist meeting and start telling them to stop wanting to terrorise?

The crackheads will probably lob a bag of needles at you and the terrorists will lob a few bombs at you.

Crackhouse/addicted to coke and throwing needles? doesn't make sense. you know nothing of the streets and ur probably addicted to maal yourself mr kaffir. you shouldn't really comment on islam seeing as ur an apostate.

w3bbo · 23 May 2013 at 23:51

Kouba said:
Hi there w3bbo, you are right in saying that the Qur'an can be taken out of context too easily, this is indeed very true. You see, the Qur'an is comprised of the Classical Arabic language (deep and rich in vocabulary) which means that in order to understand it, one must study it for a number of years. It is a fact recognized by the linguists of today that the Arabic language has the best ability to express wide and deep thoughts and to explain important subjects in short and precise words. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you can understand - people make the grave mistake of trying to understand the Qur'an from the get-go.

With regards to the Muslim communities having to take responsibility to ensure such atrocities do not occur. I'm not sure they are obliged to take responsibility as such. There have been many Muslim communities denouncing the events of today, with many stating that the perpetrators were not even part of their communities. Additionally, many Imams and Mosques have spoken loudly against the actions of the Woolwich murderers, need they do any more?

As for those who partake in spitting at soldiers returning from tours of duty, burning poppies and the British flag on remembrance day. What can I tell you w3bbo? The vast majority of UK Muslims oppose suchay actions AFAIK and want nothing to do with such characters. I think the group you are referring to are Anjem Choudary's group (which no one really likes anyway).

Ultimately, you are correct in the sense that the UK Muslims need a louder voice. When such atrocities occur, people need to know that the Muslims are against such incidents and that their religion does not teach nor allow such unfathomable events.

I sincerely hope you understand.

Thank you for the honest and thoughtful response. I guess what I'm trying to say is that a stronger representation of what is claimed to be 'true' Islam would go some way to smothering the racial hatred that festers from such incidents from both sides of the fence.

Amnesia · 23 May 2013 at 23:53

I'd vote for this guy to be Prime Minister

cheechm said:
I'm sure many of you have seen this, but it's the first time I've seen this guy talking on the subject and I reckon he has it absolutely bang on. This basically sums up what the majority have been arguing in this thread:

Linky

He would never make Prime Minister, he doesn't paint the right picture.