maxwell Titan 34% faster

Silent_Scone · 18 Dec 2014 at 09:10

If you go back a page you'll see I was talking about actual-problems with driver related issues. Not your-nothing-more-than hypothesis on games being memory starved.

Me, scaling issues, performance related problems

You, IT NOT DRIVERS IT HARDWARE LIMITATION.

Ok, so I've not given you the resolution I'm playing at, the applications I'm even using, or even what problems yet.

That is some mighty fine troubleshooting.

Kaapstad said:
I think I will take 8 Packs word on this about NVidia's flagship policy.

I'll put a sock in that one as well shall I?

Anandtech

As with past 80/70 parts this is a two tier launch, with GTX 980 being NVIDIA's new flagship card and 1st tier GM204

GameSpot

vidia brings Maxwell to its flagship GPU series with the $549 GTX 980

Bittech

Today, Nvidia is launching not one but two new graphics cards; the new flagship GTX 980 and the GTX 970

HardOCP

Continuing our coverage of NVIDIA's new Maxwell architecture and its current flagship the GeForce GTX 980

Just because you buy 4 orh' each doesn't give you some form of extra insight. I'm now unsubscribing from 'Kaap knows best'. Farewell

Kaapstad · 18 Dec 2014 at 09:23

Still NVs policy not to let AIB partners use non ref coolers on their flagship.

I am a little concerned that this even bothers you, I would have thought that the actual performance was more important than this.

joeyjojo · 18 Dec 2014 at 09:28

Silent_Scone said:
... an episode of 'Kaap knows best'!

Could be the next youtube sensation!

triss · 18 Dec 2014 at 09:38

Kaapstad said:
Still NVs policy not to let AIB partners use non ref coolers on their flagship.

I am a little concerned that this even bothers you, I would have thought that the actual performance was more important than this.

EVGA GeForce GTX TITAN BLACK Hydro Copper Signature

Non reference cooler

Really though i was just stirring sorry

Faztastic · 18 Dec 2014 at 10:15

I guess, you should stick with the 9 series if you only game at 1920x1080 and cant afford a 4k monitor yet.

i don't see 1920x1080 getting old any time soon, especially with occulus on the horizon.

Silent_Scone · 18 Dec 2014 at 10:18

Faztastic said:
I guess then stick with the 9 series if you only game at 1920x1080 and cant afford a 4k monitor yet.

i don't see 1920x1080 getting old any time soon.

Not at all, 980s do exceptionally well at 1440p as well. Try not to pay too much attention to nonsensical blanket statements.

Kaapstad · 18 Dec 2014 at 11:31

joeyjojo said:
Could be the next youtube sensation!

Unlikely, not even I would find it interesting.

SGTMASON · 18 Dec 2014 at 12:45

se_vietboi said:
£849.99 with 8GB Vram and 50% faster than GTX 980 and I'm sold!

This is why I took the advice from fellow forum folk not to jump from SLI 780's to SLI 980's...

Much better off waiting for a likely 8GB Vram, faster GPU and set up with the current 6 display connections housing...

I'm definitely going to upgrade if that happens!
Also then upgrade my 16:9 1440p monitor to a 4k one.

Then I'll be set with some mega performance SLI GPU's running a triple monitor setup of a 21:9 3440x1440 center, 1080p 144hz 3D vision and a true 4k monitor on either side.
That would be all my bases covered... To me... Gaming perfection!

Davedree · 18 Dec 2014 at 13:40

Silent_Scone said:
No-one is defending anything, I'm telling you the facts.

Just because something is due to be superseded in a short time frame doesn't make it a mid tier product. Being a flagship product makes it a flagship product.

In case you hadn't noticed I've owned 9 Titans in total, and 3 780Ti. All based on the same architecture, that is at the very least unnecessary (also wasteful), but what makes you think I'd want to defend anything?

I've given you an example clear as day of what I was originally talking about. Least of all skipping the fact that at 1600p the 980 is faster than Titan Black. So unless you've got something to say that isn't just you pointing at a piece of paper that says 256bit, I no longer want to hear it

I've heard potential rumour that Vince is working with a KPE at the moment, and I doubt it's based on GM200. So there's a little more life in the current crop than you care to believe I'm afraid

Orange denotes a shared family, No-one is disputing that the 970/980 are not Current Flagships. But we are disputing they aren't really high end cards as they are directly relative to the current mobile gpu, (cutting down smm's rop's tmus, bus size (970m) ,clock speeds).

You can claim it's a flagship, but it's the kepler 680 all over again.
Deny defending it all you like put it this way, because the gk110 was delayed the 680 took the title as flagship, when k20,k20x,k40 filtered down to gk110 derivatives, where did the 680 then fall in the hierarchy?
That's right mid range as the gtx 770, as it was always intended but Gk110 wasn't around at the same time frame of gk104.

The same will happen when bigger Maxwell appears.

Gm204 as said many times by myself and others, is just a smaller die strategy towards replacing gk110 and creating profit. Yes gm204 trades blows with gk110 and beats it in most situations. I'm not taking anything away from Maxwell as I appreciate the engineering that's gone into it, Nvidia reworked what they already had as they didn't have a node shrink, Amd stayed stagnant as they always historically rely on a node shrink.

incorrectly had gk104 meant to be gm204 and gk110

Silent_Scone · 18 Dec 2014 at 14:44

'Not really' and 'aren't.

Two things which ironically aren't the same thing, are they. Flagship by definition means THE most important one out of a related group. It is by definition THE most important card as of this day. How quickly this will change, does not in anyway change this status. It has this status purely because it is faster than all else, besides Titan-Z. Some what crude after your run down of why not' but like most I didn't need an explanaion of NVidia's roadmap.

The only reason (as said quite plainly by none other than Tom Petersen) that GM204 appears to have lesser specs is money. To come in at the price it has and to satisfy investors that is what they've had to do. If you want to dismiss that with pure speculation of your own you carry on and knock yourself out. It makes perfect sense for this to be true given the vast amounts of money wasted in poor 20nm yielding.

Yes, GM204 will get a sucessor shortly, no that does not make it a midrange part.
Yes, I'm sick of reading people with Kepler cards saying the same thing over and over.

se_vietboi · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:18

The 980 was meant to be a mainstream card but due to AMD being slow on the uptake is marketed and released as Nvidia's flagship is what I think.

Davedree · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:21

Silent_Scone said:
'Not really' and 'aren't.

Two things which ironically aren't the same thing, are they. Flagship by definition means THE most important one out of a related group. It is by definition THE most important card as of this day. How quickly this will change, does not in anyway change this status. It has this status purely because it is faster than all else, besides Titan-Z. Some what crude after your run down of why not' but like most I didn't need an explanaion of NVidia's roadmap.

The only reason (as said quite plainly by none other than Tom Petersen) that GM204 appears to have lesser specs is money. To come in at the price it has and to satisfy investors that is what they've had to do. If you want to dismiss that with pure speculation of your own you carry on and knock yourself out. It makes perfect sense for this to be true given the vast amounts of money wasted in poor 20nm yielding.

Yes, GM204 will get a sucessor shortly, no that does not make it a midrange part.
Yes, I'm sick of reading people with Kepler cards saying the same thing over and over.

Another fact for you is GK104 is nothing like GM204 as the latter is a full chip, the former is not. That's a fairly big difference in terms of what you are insinuating.

Glad you agree they aren't the same. Now we're getting somewhere, You are seeing there's a differentiation between Flagship and true high end.
From my post, I said ''No-one is disputing that the 970/980 are not Current Flagships'' FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND = Yes they are current flagships no-one is denying that.

Secondly ''But we are disputing they aren't really high end cards''
FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND= They are not true high end cards like gk110 is over gk104. If you owned a 780,780ti titan or sli of these, you'd be mad to replace them with a 970/980 or sli of these on the basis of high end gaming performance. It's not a jump in performance that represents a high end replacement.

Crude lol, it's how the family of nvidia's products were marketed IN THE END. I'm just displaying it, just because you don't like it's style doesn't change the information set in it, highlighted in orange specifically.

My crude table is highlighting that mid range desktop graphics family are shared with the mobile graphics. Why can you not see this is my main point?
You haven't even commented on that you just ignored it!

How am I dismissing that Gm204 is a small die cheap milk up?

Umm thankyou yes quite obviously Gm204 is a full chip scaling to 2048 from first release,
Gk104 scaled to 1536 shaders max respectively from its first release.

Which points a bigger maxwell on something definetely not gm204.

Davedree · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:21

se_vietboi said:
The 980 was meant to be a mainstream card but due to AMD being slow on the uptake is marketed and released as Nvidia's flagship is what I think.

that's it

Orangey · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:30

I will NEVER EVER refer to X04 dies from NV as anything other than "midrange".

Umad? :cool:

Davedree · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:36

Orangey said:
I will NEVER EVER refer to X04 dies from NV as anything other than "midrange".

Umad?

but marketing says its flagship

Ayahuasca · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:37

They'll believe AMD marketing but not nvidia :cool:

Silent_Scone · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:37

Davedree said:
Glad you agree they aren't the same. Now we're getting somewhere, You are seeing there's a differentiation between Flagship and true high end.
From my post, I said ''No-one is disputing that the 970/980 are not Current Flagships'' FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND = Yes they are current flagships no-one is denying that.

Secondly ''But we are disputing they aren't really high end cards''
FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND= They are not true high end cards like gk110 is over gk104. If you owned a 780,780ti titan or sli of these, you'd be mad to replace them with a 970/980 or sli of these on the basis of high end gaming performance. It's not a jump in performance that represents a high end replacement.

Crude lol, it's how the family of nvidia's products were marketed IN THE END. I'm just displaying it, just because you don't like it's style doesn't change the information set in it, highlighted in orange specifically.

My crude table is highlighting that mid range desktop graphics family are shared with the mobile graphics. Why can you not see this is my main point?
You haven't even commented on that you just ignored it!

How am I dismissing that Gm204 is a small die cheap milk up?

Umm thankyou yes quite obviously Gm204 is a full chip scaling to 2048 from first release,
Gk104 scaled to 1536 shaders max respectively from its first release.

Which points a bigger maxwell on something definetely not gm204.

Your definition of high end is your own based on as you've just clearly said for everyone to see 'represents a high end replacement'.

Apply some common sense to your word document and you'd realise it doesn't matter. It is marketed as a high end part, therefore it is a high end part. Kit Guru and other places are referring to this very leak as 'ultra high end' part. Why do you think that is DAVE? Could it be because we have a high end part already? Again, if you ask Nvidia - they'll tell you it's a high end part.

I'm fully aware of Nvidia's roadmap, I'm just not drawing up my own as you are to where I think GM204 should be

Your opinion of them not being a worthy successor doesn't change anything.

It's a good time filler I have to say. Me telling you what a product is and it's place on the market, and you, and some others going against what is written with what you think should be written. Great fun

Davedree · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:43

Silent_Scone said:
Your definition of high end is your own based on as you've just clearly said for everyone to see 'represents a high end replacement'.

Apply some common sense to your word document and you'd realise it doesn't matter. It is marketed as a high end part, therefore it is a high end part. Kit Guru and other places are referring to this very leak as 'ultra high end' part. Why do you think that is DAVE? Could it be because we have a high end part already? Again, if you ask Nvidia - they'll tell you it's a high end part.

I'm fully aware of Nvidia's roadmap, I'm just not drawing up my own as you are to where I think GM204 should be

Your opinion of them not being a worthy successor doesn't change anything.

It's a good time filler I have to say. Me telling you what a product is and it's place on the market, and you, and some others going against what is written with what you think should be written. Great fun

lol I'll give you one thing and that's you pick and select what you'll reply to.
I'm done fella, no hard feelings but you don't think out the box.

Kaapstad · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:46

I love my GTX 980s they are almost as fast as my 290Xs 4 up at 4K.

Hang on a minute the 980s are a year newer and don't beat the 290Xs @4K most of the time, I think this could be because NVidia will be along with their real flagship the Big Max Titan to address this at some point.

Having said that the NV 9 series are fantastic cards for the purpose NVidia intended and I would recommend them to everyone.

Silent_Scone · 18 Dec 2014 at 15:54

Kaapstad said:
I love my GTX 980s they are almost as fast as my 290Xs 4 up at 4K.

Hang on a minute the 980s are a year newer and don't beat the 290Xs @4K most of the time, I think this could be because NVidia will be along with their real flagship the Big Max Titan to address this at some point.

Having said that the NV 9 series are fantastic cards for the purpose NVidia intended and I would recommend them to everyone.

Neither does Titan Black and that came 4 months later than 290X.

See what I did there. I shot down your logic quicker than it takes you turn on your PC.

That's normally a good sign you should stop

No one is disputing Nvidia has GM200 held back. That doesn't change actual-real-facts. All one can do now is belch and move on. Daft.