Kids who misbehave...

wire-screw · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:16

When I was in secondary school I found it very annoying how the other classmates misbehaved. I wondered why they did this and came to the conclusion they just didn't have the respect, self awareness or any comprehension of their actions or for the larger things in life - this was when I was around sixteen.

I ponder things often and enjoy philosophy as well as the meditative aspects of Buddhism.

Lately now I'm at the ripe old age of nineteen

I have been thinking more about our actions and the reasons we make them. I believe everything is predictable. As in if you had a computer that was fast enough and you could enter everything that has ever happened and existed then it could return you information on anything that will happen in the future.

So to summarize the reason I think this is because the actions we take are based on these things.

- What we know.
- Our configuration (what makes us unique and the way we think).

That is all!

What we know is dictated by the people who already exist around us when we are born. eg. what they tell us, show us, give etc. Then we make up our mind what to believe based on how we think which is determined my the DNA of your parents. Your parents meet due to the things in their life and their way of making sense of the world.

So you could also say you are the product of all your parents, grand parents, great grand parents etc.

The reason kids misbehave is obviously none of their doing however there must still be positive/negative gusts from the people who can offer it to get their ship sailing in the correct direction! However this will only happen if the people who are needed end up in that situation... and it goes on...

Now I bet you didn't think you would be reading this!? I didn't think you would get this far either!

So what do you think and I'm interested in how this comes across to you?

Theophany · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:17

Like a load of tripe. People need personal accountability.

AJK · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:18

GSWAudio said:
I believe everything is predictable. As in if you had a computer that was fast enough and you could enter everything that has ever happened and existed then it could return you information on anything that will happen in the future.

Nope.

Glaucus · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:20

Theres a lot of scientists who agree with you, and that so called free will is made up and everything is pre determined, not by some all powerful being but just by physics. If you could model every energy level in the universe then you could model the future, but you could never do that as it would take something larger than the universe to model the universe.

wire-screw · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:25

Theophany said:
Like a load of tripe. People need personal accountability.

I don't disagree with you, people need to be taught to a more fundamental level however. Also people have a lot more going on mentally than you may think.

AJK said:
Nope.

Lets at least have some kind of intelligent retort?

wire-screw · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:26

Glaucus said:
Theres a lot of scientists who agree with you, and that so called free will is made up and everything is pre determined, not by some all powerful being but just by physics. If you could model every energy level in the universe then you could model the future, but you could never do that.

Yes I have come to the conclusion it's true. For me what ever will happen will happen! It will be quite interesting to see how the equation of life unravels!

Glaucus · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:30

GSWAudio said:
Yes I have come to the conclusion it's true. For me what ever will happen will happen! It will be quite interesting to see how the equation of life unravels!

You may find this interesting
http://phys.org/news186830615.html

Sliver · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:30

GSWAudio said:
I believe everything is predictable.

Stopped reading at this. /thread.

JonJ678 · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:35

The world isn't deterministic. Particle interactions aren't, so nothing built upon them can be either. The world probably is stochastically tractable, in that the most likely thing to happen next should be calculable, but not with complete certainty. /physics

The reason kids misbehave is obviously none of their doing

That's not obvious. If anything the opposite is obvious. The behaviour of the kid is the behaviour of the kid - it can't obviously not be the behaviour of the kid.

Blame does not lie elsewhere when one is being a ****. Not for adults, not for kids. Responsibility lies with the person who is acting.

Xordium · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:38

But these things are massively non-linear in nature. When we struggle to model reasonably simple chaotic systems so consistently eg the weather or fluid flow then how the hell could we hope to predict something with so many variables?

I also hope you are not doing anything biology related at the age of 19 at a establishment of higher education because you will need to hit the books on behaviour and neurological primers if you are! And responsibility is very different to causative agents.

Theophany · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:39

Glaucus said:
Theres a lot of scientists who agree with you, and that so called free will is made up and everything is pre determined, not by some all powerful being but just by physics. If you could model every energy level in the universe then you could model the future, but you could never do that as it would take something larger than the universe to model the universe.

Their belief is no more empirically provable than God, so it'd be rather hypocritical for them to shill it as 'science,' given all the crap that gets flung around in the religion threads/derailments on this forum.

AJK · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:40

GSWAudio said:
Lets at least have some kind of intelligent retort?

It wasn't my choice. The world determined that I was going to type "Nope." and obviously I couldn't resist that pre-determined outcome.

Theophany · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:41

AJK said:
It wasn't my choice. The world determined that I was going to type "Nope." and obviously I couldn't resist that pre-determined outcome.

Well that's the witty retort covered!

[FnG]magnolia · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:44

You're 19 years old. Come back when you don't think you have an unique view on the world with insights that have escaped every single person who has gone before you.

413x · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:46

There are said to be some truely random things in quantum physics (i think spin of sun atomic particles?) but these might not be random either, we just dont know how to predict them!
(im not sure where theories/evidence leave this at present?)

but i do possibly agree
if you were presented with the exact same situation n times would you make the same decision n times?
Quite possibly!

The problem is proving/disproving this

(i may be wrong, its been a looong time since i read this stuff)

G|mp · 1 Oct 2013 at 22:50

[FnG]magnolia;25039840 said:
You're 19 years old. Come back when you don't think you have an unique view on the world with insights that have escaped every single person who has gone before you.

Indeed, this is a discussion with your mates while you pass a bong around.

wire-screw · 1 Oct 2013 at 23:00

AJK said:
It wasn't my choice. The world determined that I was going to type "Nope." and obviously I couldn't resist that pre-determined outcome.

It's true though, right?

[FnG]magnolia;25039840 said:
You're 19 years old. Come back when you don't think you have an unique view on the world with insights that have escaped every single person who has gone before you.

The thing is if I truly believe my own theory I can't be annoyed with that comment!

G|mp said:
Indeed, this is a discussion with your mates while you pass a bong around.

Same with you!

wire-screw · 1 Oct 2013 at 23:01

JonJ678 said:
The world isn't deterministic. Particle interactions aren't, so nothing built upon them can be either. The world probably is stochastically tractable, in that the most likely thing to happen next should be calculable, but not with complete certainty. /physics

That's not obvious. If anything the opposite is obvious. The behaviour of the kid is the behaviour of the kid - it can't obviously not be the behaviour of the kid.

Blame does not lie elsewhere when one is being a ****. Not for adults, not for kids. Responsibility lies with the person who is acting.

Read the quote it says 'the reason'.

AJK · 1 Oct 2013 at 23:16

GSWAudio said:
It's true though, right?

I think I already gave my view on that. Let's recap: no.

The only reason I can see to adopt the belief that your actions are pre-determined is to avoid moral responsibility. "Sorry officer, I saw her there, but it wasn't my choice not to brake." A silly example, you'll say, but one entirely consistent with your world view; you can do anything you like and blame it on fate, destiny, or the "science" of pre-determination.

Glaucus · 1 Oct 2013 at 23:19

AJK said:
I think I already gave my view on that. Let's recap: no.

The only reason I can see to adopt the belief that your actions are pre-determined is to avoid moral responsibility. "Sorry officer, I saw her there, but it wasn't my choice not to brake." A silly example, you'll say, but one entirely consistent with your world view; you can do anything you like and blame it on fate, destiny, or the "science" of pre-determination.

Or that everything we know so far in physics points that way and even some loosely related biological processes.
Its not a new idea at all. And it doesn't mean you should get rid of the legal system either. As the legal system still influences the environment.