Kids who misbehave...

Its not a new idea at all. And it doesn't mean you should get rid of the legal system either. As the legal system still influences the environment.

If everything is deterministic, then it's irrelevant whether we "should get rid of the legal system", or what we might believe about doing so, since the decision is not ours to make, it simply is.

On the other hand, if we have free will, which seems the far more sensible premise to work from until somebody comes up with actual "proof" - which will never happen - then evidently we shouldn't get rid of the legal system, since everyone has moral responsibility for their actions.
 
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Humans are just animals.
Clever, imaginative animals.

We share all animals negative points, such as rape, bullying and violence.
Problem is our superior intellect means that any imaginable form of depravity is possible.

The only thing that is predictable is our own destruction...
 
Read the quote it says 'the reason'.

Yes, but if you are correct and nobody has any choice about anything, ever, including their own actions, then nobody can be responsible for anything. If people are indeed completely mindless and are merely biological machines responding to inputs in a completely predetermined way, then they are no more responsible for their actions than, for example, water is responsible for flowing downhill.

The idea that humans are able to think and choose has a considerable amount of evidence supporting it - we all appear to do so all the time. It is not a belief, a baseless act of faith.

It is possible that it is false, that we are just mindless machines with the illusion that we have minds, but the evidence for that position is lacking and thus it is that position which currently appears more likely to be a belief.

Even if all physical and biological reactions are utterly deterministic (and it isn't at all certain that they are - there appear to be non-deterministic aspects to the universe), it is still possible that minds exist and we simply don't understand the method by which they work.

There may be some certainty uncovered in the future, but for the time being I'll pencil in the idea that we have minds as being the best match for observable reality.
 
The evidence isn't lacking at all, theres just as much evidence for both sides, pretty much none. Free will kind of needs the basics of physics re writing if it exists though.
Do you need to be responsible for your actions, what difference does it make?
 
Theres a lot of scientists who agree with you, and that so called free will is made up and everything is pre determined, not by some all powerful being but just by physics. If you could model every energy level in the universe then you could model the future, but you could never do that as it would take something larger than the universe to model the universe.

I have long come to this conclusion. I don't believe there is genuine free will, only the illusion of it and that every action and decision is simply cause and effect in the same way that the laws of physics can be watched and observed.
 
The evidence isn't lacking at all, theres just as much evidence for both sides, pretty much none. Free will kind of needs the basics of physics re writing if it exists though.
Do you need to be responsible for your actions, what difference does it make?

Isn't that somewhat contradictory?
 
It's true though, right?



The thing is if I truly believe my own theory I can't be annoyed with that comment!



Same with you!

It's hardly your own theory, there isn't a futon in a university hall which has managed to avoid having a self-styled philosopher (who just loves a bit of Buddhism) spout this while toking some sub-standard grass in an embarrassing hat while sat amongst its various stains.
 
I think with enough knowledge you can accurately predict a cycle from point A to point B. However point B may not be a single pre-determined point. It could be an either/or 'branch' in the prediction where either thing may happen depending on variables. So then we know the outcome for cycle one, from point A may be point B if XYZ is true, or point C if DEF is true, if XDZ is true it may end up at point G. But with enough knowledge you should be able to then predict which of the combinations is going to happen and thefore say with certainty what the outcome will be, irrelevant of how complex the equation is or how many millions of XYZ, DEF branches there are in the process.

In the case of the universe I think the same would apply, but the knowledge required and the power to process that knowledge would be astounding to the point of incomprehensible to our species. That is not to say that such power and knowledge does not or cannot exist though. Most would say it impossible because we are limited by our own understanding. Someone mentioned it would take something larger than the universe to model the universe. Probably true - but that view is limited by the thought that our universe is the only universe and there are not others. Perhaps what we see as our universe is merely a single element in a sea of other universes?

We dont have the knowledge we think it requires to accurately predict everything, but others might. We may develop it, but perhaps our resources are self limiting, perhaps that way by design.

I have said in other forum topics that a theory of our existence that is just as plausible to me as any other, is that we are just an experiment for a superior species/being.

Consider a bacteria culture on an agar plate under the microscope. Now to those bacteria, the kind of knowledge and ability that the human species possess is incomprehensible. They are, after all, just simple bacteria. If you add an element of logic, it stands to reason that no matter how hard it is to believe or comprehend, we may actually be just a form of bacteria on an agar plate being grown and observed by a species/being that has knowledge beyond our comprehension.

Some call that being God, others believe they are Aliens. Perhaps it is just us but millions of years in the future when we have gained the power and knowledge to manipulate a universe.

Who knows? More to the point, who really cares? :p
 
Naughty kids are so because of the parents and also other kids around them.

If all parents were doing a good job then all kids would be well behaved and thus uncorrupted by anyone.

alas this is never going to happen as most parents don't like their kids.
 
Isn't this covered by religion?
God gives you free will but already knows what you will do.

Which requires him to predict what the universe will do given his knowledge of what direction you are most likely to take.

So to us it appears random, to an omniscient being it is predictable.



Wow, did my brain just say that at this time in the morning? :eek:
 
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"I'm 19, look at how idealistic I am"

The reason kids misbehave is because parents are more concerned with getting their kids to like them, being freinds to their children than they are in raising them with discipline.

It's all well and fine you want your children to like you all the time, but unless you ensure they feel bad when they behave bad, they will never learn their actions have consequences.

Just like if you give them everything without them needing to work for it, they will grow up entitled and lazy.

And if you don't teach them manners, how will they ever know?

It's like parents just brush stuff off "Oh it's just a phase, leave him too it, I was like that once" yeah, you were like that, and it's because your parents wouldn't stand for it you became a better person.

I was raised with discipline and I respect my parents for it, kids nowadays are spoilt entitled and disrespectful and most of them are never going anywhere because they aren't prepared to work for it. They think "well, mum and dad will make it all better".

It's a shower of ****e.
 
It's hardly your own theory, there isn't a futon in a university hall which has managed to avoid having a self-styled philosopher (who just loves a bit of Buddhism) spout this while toking some sub-standard grass in an embarrassing hat while sat amongst its various stains.

Memories, huh? ;)
 
Consider a bacteria culture on an agar plate under the microscope. Now to those bacteria, the kind of knowledge and ability that the human species possess is incomprehensible. They are, after all, just simple bacteria. If you add an element of logic, it stands to reason that no matter how hard it is to believe or comprehend, we may actually be just a form of bacteria on an agar plate being grown and observed by a species/being that has knowledge beyond our comprehension.

I remember doing this experiment in Biology at school.
The parallels that can be draw from it are a sobering thought.

I really feel that this is the destiny of man.
Over population, lack of food, pollution and war are our biggest enemy.
 
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I really feel that this is the destiny of man.
Over population, lack of food, pollution and war are our biggest enemy.

You might find this an interesting read and might even feel better about the future.
The Infinite Resource: The Power of Ideas on a Finite Planet [Hardcover]
Ramez Naam (Author)

For a start the population is starting to level out and as we become wealthier we have less kids.
 
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