• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

g67575 said:
Was I incorrect to think that Meteor Lake is likely to have more than 8 P-Cores?

I think Intel is keeping quiet on the details at the moment, at least with Raptor Lake still to launch.
Click to expand...

I think Intel is purposefully making their development plans public. Intel has done this for years, though what’s changed is the frequency of release.



11th Gen (Rocket Lake – new architecture) – March 2021

12th Gen (Alder Lake – new architecture, new process (10nm)) – December 2021

13th Gen (Raptor Lake – new architecture) – Q3 2022

14th Gen (Meteor Lake – new architecture, new process (7nm)) – 2023



Compared to years previous from Intel, the above release cadence is absolutely fantastic. Very excited to see where Zen4 fits in, performance, availability and price wise, compared to 13th, 14th gen.
 
Dave2150 said:
I think Intel is purposefully making their development plans public. Intel has done this for years, though what’s changed is the frequency of release.



11th Gen (Rocket Lake – new architecture) – March 2021

12th Gen (Alder Lake – new architecture, new process (10nm)) – December 2021

13th Gen (Raptor Lake – new architecture) – Q3 2022

14th Gen (Meteor Lake – new architecture, new process (7nm)) – 2023



Compared to years previous from Intel, the above release cadence is absolutely fantastic. Very excited to see where Zen4 fits in, performance, availability and price wise, compared to 13th, 14th gen.
Click to expand...
We keep telling you Raptor Lake is not new architecture, unless you have a definition none of us are aware of. As for Zen 4 expect it to be about raptor lake in IPC and probably Zen 5 above mereor lake
 
Zen 4 is going to have the highest single threaded IPC. An increase of 10 or 20% has happened with each Zen generation so far (I mean Zen 1, Zen 2 and Zen 3). Personally, this is the thing I tend to value. A 10% increase seems safe to assume, plus around a 10% boost in clock rate too (5ghz on all cores, at least on 8 cores).

Raptor Lake might be able to offer the best multithreaded performance, as Intel is improving clock rate and adding more E-Cores. I think they will need to find a way to clock their E-Cores higher to compete with the most expensive Zen 4 models.

We know Intel was predicting a tough time against AMD, due to delays (defects) to their 7nm EUV process, reported by their previous CEO. 7nm Intel CPUs were originally planned for 2022 (Now on track for 2023).

It's possible that there will be a nice bump up in DDR5 RAM support on both CPU generations, that is roughly equivalent. Both generations will offer improvements to the cache amounts (does not affect IPC).
 
Last edited:
g67575 said:
Zen 4 is going to have the highest single threaded IPC. An increase of 10 or 20% has happened with each Zen generation so far (I mean Zen 1, Zen 2 and Zen 3). Personally, this is the thing I tend to value. A 10% increase seems safe to assume, plus around a 10% boost in clock rate too (5ghz on all cores, at least on 8 cores).

Raptor Lake might be able to offer the best multithreaded performance, as Intel is improving clock rate and adding more E-Cores. I think they will need to find a way to clock their E-Cores higher to compete with the most expensive Zen 4 models.

We know Intel was predicting a tough time against AMD, due to delays (defects) to their 7nm EUV process, reported by their previous CEO. 7nm Intel CPUs were originally planned for 2022 (Now on track for 2023).

It's possible that there will be a nice bump up in DDR5 RAM support on both CPU generations, that is roughly equivalent. Both generations will offer improvements to the cache amounts (does not affect IPC).
Click to expand...

Performance is all conjecture at the moment. AMD is the one that first has to beat Alder Lake IPC and general performance.
 
Dave2150 said:
Performance is all conjecture at the moment. AMD is the one that first has to beat Alder Lake IPC and general performance.
Click to expand...
With simple cache integration they reached ADL level, mission done. Zen 4 unlike all previous Zen will be new platform and all TSMC nodes so IPC gain will be much higher. Previous platform migration was 50% IPC (AM3 to AM4). RPL will be small IPC bump, even Intel used conservative words in their slide (up to double digit performance bump), probably only multicore because of more e-cores.
 
Should be easy peasy. Do you not want AMD to build faster CPUs or something? The platform is new too (DDR5 support only), so it's hardly going to be a repeat of Zen 3.
 
g67575 said:
Should be easy peasy. Do you not want AMD to build faster CPUs or something? The platform is new too (DDR5 support only), so it's hardly going to be a repeat of Zen 3.
Click to expand...

I want AMD to build faster CPU's, though I'm not invested (financially/emotionaly) in AMD, so still able to see things logically.

AMD first have to beat Alder Lake IPC. Then Raptor Lake could launch before Zen4. Raptor lake is a new architecture, with 24 cores, increased IPC, improved cache design etc. That's a huge IPC increase needed from Zen4 to beat Raptor Lake. Perhaps they'll do it, though rumours indicate only 16 cores models at launch, so 24core Raptor Lake will likely beat it in anything well multi-threaded.

Then we have Meteor Lake in 2023, again new architecture and new process. Performance per watt improvements - it's very unlikely Zen4 will be able to touch this.
 
Will be interesting to see what pin layout RPL uses since if it's only 1700 then there is a good chance meteor lake will be compatible with the current LGA1700/1800 boards albeit likely only the DDR5 versions.
 
Only good can come from Intel having better products, pushing AMD to keep innovating and keeping prices competitive. Looking forward to both companies getting faster and more efficient, no-one wants a hot noisy PC.
 
Dave2150 said:
I want AMD to build faster CPU's, though I'm not invested (financially/emotionaly) in AMD, so still able to see things logically.

AMD first have to beat Alder Lake IPC. Then Raptor Lake could launch before Zen4. Raptor lake is a new architecture, with 24 cores, increased IPC, improved cache design etc. That's a huge IPC increase needed from Zen4 to beat Raptor Lake. Perhaps they'll do it, though rumours indicate only 16 cores models at launch, so 24core Raptor Lake will likely beat it in anything well multi-threaded.

Then we have Meteor Lake in 2023, again new architecture and new process. Performance per watt improvements - it's very unlikely Zen4 will be able to touch this.
Click to expand...
You are invested emotionaly in Intel, that's why you don't see things logically:

Intel-troll.png
 
sparkymark75 said:
That first post above is a very short sighted view of the world that serves no one other than Intel shareholders. It certainly doesn't help consumers. Intel will just go back to 4 cores with no competition!
Click to expand...
this won't happen again, AMD is too strong now with xilinx. If you notice his behavior pattern, every post is light trolling and personal wishes just enough to avoid ban, he never reply to his troll comment, but because he is in some personal "vendetta" against AMD he uses alt accounts like user: Bencher to do more hardcore trolling. We can conclude that his prediction will fail like all before, and admins should investigate those alt accounts.
 
Dave2150 said:
I want AMD to build faster CPU's, though I'm not invested (financially/emotionaly) in AMD, so still able to see things logically.

AMD first have to beat Alder Lake IPC. Then Raptor Lake could launch before Zen4. Raptor lake is a new architecture, with 24 cores, increased IPC, improved cache design etc. That's a huge IPC increase needed from Zen4 to beat Raptor Lake. Perhaps they'll do it, though rumours indicate only 16 cores models at launch, so 24core Raptor Lake will likely beat it in anything well multi-threaded.

Then we have Meteor Lake in 2023, again new architecture and new process. Performance per watt improvements - it's very unlikely Zen4 will be able to touch this.
Click to expand...
Hang on, we're back to asserting things now. How is that logical? Why lectures about logic?

There's no IPC improvement is there, beyond Alder Lake? If we are being honest.

Adding more cores a good CPU doth not make, but neither is it a bad thing.

We agree on Meteor Lake it seems, but you just love to talk about Intel's 10nm CPUs, which is unexciting old tech.

Intel admits their 10nm process is a technological dead end. Their 7nm EUV is targeted for roughly twice the transistor density.
 
Last edited:
g67575 said:
Hang on, we're back to asserting things now. How is that logical? Why lectures about logic?

There's no IPC improvement is there, beyond Alder Lake? If we are being honest.

Adding more cores a good CPU doth not make, but neither is it a bad thing.

We agree on Meteor Lake it seems, but you just love to talk about Intel's 10nm CPUs, which is unexciting old tech.

Intel admits their 10nm process is a technological dead end. Their 7nm EUV is targeted for roughly twice the transistor density.
Click to expand...
You expect answer from troll? He know very well what he does, and he read every post. Back to topic, RPL will be just refresh of ADL, meteor lake will be no doubt good performance gain, so as Zen 5. AMD with better cache technology can gain similar performance in games even with 15% IPC deficit, so Zen 4-3d vs Meteor Lake will be probably like Zen3d vs ADL, but Zen 5 will be new level. Intel will have hard times every year, AMD is too strong now, they have knowledge and resources.
 
I think Intel will do much better once Meteor Lake is released, but I'd be quite hesitant to buy it personally, if they are limited to 8 P cores for the standard desktop models (shows design limitation). So, it depends.

Intel will do ok with 13th gen, but they are depending on offering easy upgrades to 12th gen customers.
 
Dave2150 said:
I want AMD to build faster CPU's, though I'm not invested (financially/emotionaly) in AMD, so still able to see things logically.

AMD first have to beat Alder Lake IPC. Then Raptor Lake could launch before Zen4. Raptor lake is a new architecture, with 24 cores, increased IPC, improved cache design etc. That's a huge IPC increase needed from Zen4 to beat Raptor Lake. Perhaps they'll do it, though rumours indicate only 16 cores models at launch, so 24core Raptor Lake will likely beat it in anything well multi-threaded.

Then we have Meteor Lake in 2023, again new architecture and new process. Performance per watt improvements - it's very unlikely Zen4 will be able to touch this.
Click to expand...

I'm not invested (financially/emotionaly) in AMD, so still able to see things logically. But its clear you are with INTEL thats why you dont see things logically and make bold claims :p
 
Last edited:
Don't look like a generation of CPUs geared towards increasing the number of P-Cores.

I wonder if the desktop CPUs will come a bit later in the 2nd half of 2023, maybe with more than 8 P-Cores?

If so, it would end up extending the lifespan of Raptor Lake desktop CPUs somewhat.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom