14th Gen "Raptor Lake Refresh"

[Dave2150]

Good stage of development to start this thread!

14th Gen Core “Meteor Lake” has been powered-on, on track to launch in 2023​

Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/14th-gen-core-meteor-lake-has-been-powered-on-on-track-to-launch-in-2023

“Intel 4 Meteor Lake has now successfully booted Windows, Chrome, and Linux. The speed at which the team was able to achieve this milestone is a significant sign of the health of both Meteor Lake and our Intel 4 process technology.”

— Pat Gelsinger, Intel CEO

13th gen Raptor Lake (also a new architecture) should launch in a few months, though won't have too long until 14th gen is knocking on the door!

We all have to be thankful to AMD, for pushing Intel to execute and advance so quickly. 2022 and 2023 will be very interesting!

 

[Dave2150]

It booted Windows? Wow Pat,...awesome, I'll get my wallet open.

Big milestone for new process & new architecture

 

[Dave2150]

I guess I can understand that But, what I'd like to hear Pat say is "we can produce these at huge volume, with great power consumption and performance", since they had 10nm working for ages, they just couldn't make any (for desktop).

Intel's '7' process (10nm) was an improvement in power consumption, over 14nm+++, though as you said it was delayed a very long time.

Hopefully Intel's '4' process (7nm), that Meteor Lake is built on, is a further improvement. It's not been delayed like it's predecessor was, though that'smostly all we know for now.

Excited to see Intel's 7nm vs TSMC's 5nm. Though I suspect Intel having access to huge amount of wafers that it produces itself, will win it the supply (and market share) battle, judging by the rising prices/demand commanded by TSMC's leading node. Apple are their #1 customer after all.

 

[Dave2150]

Meteor lake is ahead of schedule well done.

I wonder if next year Zen 5 will be 3nm or 5nm.

If AMD is still on 5nm in 2023 then Intel can have the advanced given Intel 4 is equivalent to TSMC's 4nm.
If AMD is on 3nm then they have the advantage but they also stuck, TSMC is not taping out 2nm until 2026 so AMD will have 3-4 years where its stuck on 3nm.

So in all likely hood, barring some huge screw up Intel will reach 2nm well before AMD can

All very true. I think the most important factor for AMD will be how many wafers they'll be able to secure from TSMC on 5nm/3nm and at what price.

Intel's invested heavily in additional fabs, this could mean Intel are able to produce many more wafers (and thus CPU's) at a lower cost than TSMC. Or perhaps TSMC will have much better yields than Intel, making them far cheaper.

Can't wait to see what happens!

 

[Dave2150]

Was I incorrect to think that Meteor Lake is likely to have more than 8 P-Cores?

I think Intel is keeping quiet on the details at the moment, at least with Raptor Lake still to launch.

I think Intel is purposefully making their development plans public. Intel has done this for years, though what’s changed is the frequency of release.



11th Gen (Rocket Lake – new architecture) – March 2021

12th Gen (Alder Lake – new architecture, new process (10nm)) – December 2021

13th Gen (Raptor Lake – new architecture) – Q3 2022

14th Gen (Meteor Lake – new architecture, new process (7nm)) – 2023



Compared to years previous from Intel, the above release cadence is absolutely fantastic. Very excited to see where Zen4 fits in, performance, availability and price wise, compared to 13th, 14th gen.

 

[Dave2150]

Zen 4 is going to have the highest single threaded IPC. An increase of 10 or 20% has happened with each Zen generation so far (I mean Zen 1, Zen 2 and Zen 3). Personally, this is the thing I tend to value. A 10% increase seems safe to assume, plus around a 10% boost in clock rate too (5ghz on all cores, at least on 8 cores).

Raptor Lake might be able to offer the best multithreaded performance, as Intel is improving clock rate and adding more E-Cores. I think they will need to find a way to clock their E-Cores higher to compete with the most expensive Zen 4 models.

We know Intel was predicting a tough time against AMD, due to delays (defects) to their 7nm EUV process, reported by their previous CEO. 7nm Intel CPUs were originally planned for 2022 (Now on track for 2023).

It's possible that there will be a nice bump up in DDR5 RAM support on both CPU generations, that is roughly equivalent. Both generations will offer improvements to the cache amounts (does not affect IPC).

Performance is all conjecture at the moment. AMD is the one that first has to beat Alder Lake IPC and general performance.

 

[Dave2150]

Should be easy peasy. Do you not want AMD to build faster CPUs or something? The platform is new too (DDR5 support only), so it's hardly going to be a repeat of Zen 3.

I want AMD to build faster CPU's, though I'm not invested (financially/emotionaly) in AMD, so still able to see things logically.

AMD first have to beat Alder Lake IPC. Then Raptor Lake could launch before Zen4. Raptor lake is a new architecture, with 24 cores, increased IPC, improved cache design etc. That's a huge IPC increase needed from Zen4 to beat Raptor Lake. Perhaps they'll do it, though rumours indicate only 16 cores models at launch, so 24core Raptor Lake will likely beat it in anything well multi-threaded.

Then we have Meteor Lake in 2023, again new architecture and new process. Performance per watt improvements - it's very unlikely Zen4 will be able to touch this.

 

[Dave2150]

Hang on, we're back to asserting things now. How is that logical? Why lectures about logic?

There's no IPC improvement is there, beyond Alder Lake? If we are being honest.

Adding more cores a good CPU doth not make, but neither is it a bad thing.

We agree on Meteor Lake it seems, but you just love to talk about Intel's 10nm CPUs, which is unexciting old tech.

Intel admits their 10nm process is a technological dead end. Their 7nm EUV is targeted for roughly twice the transistor density.

New architecture = IPC gains. Raptor Lake is a new architecture, as is Meteor Lake. Both will bring increased IPC.

 

[Dave2150]

These Intel threads are always hilarious. Saying AMD have lower IPC just proves the lack of understanding

? Fastest AMD CPU for the overall performance (all workloads, as per reviews) is the 5950X. The 12900k (and now KS) has higher IPC (on it's P cores) as well as increased frequency. Do you not understand this?

Think I'm being trolled, so I'll not debate this further with you.

 

[Dave2150]

I pretty sure Raptor lake uses the same P core as Alder Lake, that being Golden Cove they are just clocked slightly higher and have access to more cache in Raptor lake. A new P core is only coming for 14th gen Meteor Lake

We'll see. Been a few leaks showing new architecture, new cache, and 300Mhz bump. Hopefully we'll get some leaks from retail samples soon!

 

[Dave2150]

Intel Meteor Lake compute tile gets pictured​

This compute tile is manufactured using Intel 4 process technology, which was previously referred to as 7nm. According to Intel, this node will provide over 20% performance per watt uplift over Intel 7 (10nm).

Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/first-die-shot-of-intel-14th-gen-core-meteor-lake-processor-emerges

 

[Dave2150]

I wouldn't be a happy Intel buyer if they release 14th gen shortly after 12th and 13th.

Very close launch dates, why not just delay the launch in the original ground plans and then pull them closer if needs be?

I get that they want to compete with AMD but I don't think 13th gen will struggle to do so.

I also know that these chips are years in the making so it's hard to turn a very large ship but I'm not saying turn, just slow down a little.

I think it's on purpose. 12th, 13th gen - support DDR4 & DDR5. 14th gen - DDR5 only.

Intel wants to cater to those who can't afford to upgrade RAM and the same time as motherboard, CPU, so perhaps we'll see 13th and 14th gen on sale the same time, for a lengthy period?

This is also one of the big mistakes with AM5/Zen4 IMO - with DDR5 so expensive compared to DDR4, they've already cut themselves out of a significant market share here.

 

[Dave2150]

Dave, it's time to turn that emotion chip off

It won't help with your intel Stonks

The irony is, I've probably spent more on AMD products than most here.

Bought these on release, had lots of fun playing with them

Radeon 7
Vega64 Liquid Edition
FuryX
390X
7950 Ghz
5970
Another few prior to this

If Zen4 turns out to be amazing, I'll be buying on release. Though it'll have the single thread performance crown, intel level reliability and no RAM compatibility issues. Also no silly chipset fans etc!

 

[Dave2150]

Intel To Disclose New Information on 14th Gen Meteor Lake & 15th Gen Arrow Lake CPUs at HotChips 34​

Source: https://wccftech.com/intel-to-discl...-lake-15th-gen-arrow-lake-cpus-at-hotchip-34/

Raptor Lake should be out by August I'd expect, great to see Intel hasn't taken their foot off the pedal and are already talking about 14th gen.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel 14th Gen Core desktop “Meteor Lake” allegedly requires new LGA-2551 socket​

Intel LGA-1851 socket for desktop Intel Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake has been leaked - VideoCardz.com

Not LGA-2551, Intel Socket V1 (LGA-1851) for 14th and 15th Gen Core Series has been leaked Benchlife today reports on new Intel socket for desktop CPUs. Contrary to the previous information, the new socket for desktop Arrow Lake and Meteor Lake-S series is not LGA 2551 but LGA 1851 instead. The...

videocardz.com

It would appear that the rumors stating Intel will keep 3 generations on the same socket are untrue. In the fourth quarter of 2023 when Intel is expected to launch a new desktop series codenamed Meteor Lake, an entirely new socket might be required.

The LGA 2551 wouldn’t be much bigger than the LGA1700 socket though. According to MLID, it’s 38 × 46 mm, which means 0.5 mm wider and 1 mm taller socket. However, the 2551 indicates it will have 50% more pins.

 

[Dave2150]

If Zen 5 ends up a 24 core, which it probably will, Intel will tag on 4X as many half cores as they have full cores, which is ridiculous, its like gluing eight i5 6600 together and then gluing that to eight of thier actually 2020's level performance cores, they would be doing that so they don't get left behind in the MT benchmarks.

Performance and reliability are what matter overall. Intel win at both. Once 13th gen launches with more cache, higher frequency and 8 more cores, the gap will be even bigger. Zen4's 15% improved ST won't be enough to come close to 13th gen, judging from leaks.

Looking forward to official reviews.

 

[Dave2150]

Another new socket!

Intel LGA-1851 socket for desktop Intel Meteor Lake and Arrow Lake has been leaked​

Source: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-l...el-meteor-lake-and-arrow-lake-has-been-leaked

The LGA-1851 measures 45 × 37.5 mm which is the same as LGA1700/1800 for Alder/Raptor Lake series. Therefore, one could assume that cooler compatibility will be preserved.

According to the slide leaked by the site, the only dimensions that have changed is the IHS (integrated heat spreader) height. From 6.73-7.4mm to 6.83-7.49. This is not a massive change though, but it may require new compatibility fasteners or more attention when installing the coolers. The taller package may be a result of Meteor Lake desktop series using Intel’s new tiled architecture, based on Foveros packaging technology. This is not the case with monolithic desktop Alder Lake/Raptor Lake CPUs.

The slide lists ARL before MTL-S, possibly suggesting that Arrow Lake arrives before Meteor Lake. Therefore, Arrow Lake-S could be a successor to Raptor Lake. Intel has not been sharing too much information on Arrow Lake series, whereas Meteor Lake silicon has been shown in multiple variants already.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel 4 process node shaping up nicely by the sounds of it: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1744...il-2x-density-scaling-20-improved-performance

Good read. It'll be nice to see Intel and AMD compete on a more equal process footing. Zen3 being on TSMC's 7nm while Intel was still on 14nm with Cometlake, Rocketlake meant they had a huge process advantage. Intel 7 (10nm) with 12th gen gave Intel the overall performance crown back once again, though AMD is about to jump to TSMC's 5nm, so exciting times ahead!

 

[Dave2150]

Some info on Meteor Lake here though not much that's new. I did find this interesting though:

Data gathered by Mercury Research(opens in new tab) indicated that Intel chips accounted for 74.4% of all traditional CPU sales at the end of 2021.

Source: https://www.creativebloq.com/news/intel-meteor-lake

Considering Alder Lake only launched in November, it would have had limited impact on these figures. I'd guess Intel are closer to 80% of CPU sales at this point!

 

[Dave2150]

Intel's P cores (as seen on Alder Lake since 12900k release date in November 2021) are currently the most powerful cores available on X86. This lead will be extended with Raptor Lake, thanks to many improvements in the architecture.

Meteor Lake will improve this further, exciting time ahead

Hybrid designs are here to stay, E cores clearly useful and have allowed Intel to return to leaderships status across the majority of workloads, whether you accept/like this or not.