15 Minute Cities

Kenai said:
15 minute cities as a planning concept does not necessitate anything beyond ensuring that all key amenities are available within given timescales/distances.

The stuff about people being banned from leaving their locality is, as far as i've ever been able to determine, complete nonsense.



This thread probably ought to start with a decent link to whatever it is you've read that says the the government have "apparently" given this green light, so the discussion can actually focus on something of substance
Click to expand...
This is pretty much it.

The funny thing is, most cities are organically "15 minute" cities, the hate for them mainly comes from American sources who have grown up with the idea that you need a car to go anywhere.

Any European town or city will likely already meet the criteria because they were built before the car, my town already has loads of signage giving the direction to various facilities and how long they will take to walk or cycle, and the really funny bit is, you can often walk some routes faster than take the car, let alone if you cycle rather than walk.


I think the planning rule that's been suggested is to stop the builders from doing loads of cheap, nasty estates where they have no intention of giving housing room over to amenities, I know in my town the council had to get tough with them after several tried to weasel their way out of planning conditions by claiming "we can't afford to build the green space we said we would when we got permission", or "it'll cost us too much if we have to actually allow for those small retail premises we said we would".
 
Last edited:
iu
 
Werewolf said:
This is pretty much it.

The funny thing is, most cities are organically "15 minute" cities, the hate for them mainly comes from American sources who have grown up with the idea that you need a car to go anywhere.

Any European town or city will likely already meet the criteria because they were built before the car, my town already has loads of signage giving the direction to various facilities and how long they will take to walk or cycle, and the really funny bit is, you can often walk some routes faster than take the car, let alone if you cycle rather than walk.


I think the planning rule that's been suggested is to stop the builders from doing loads of cheap, nasty estates where they have no intention of giving housing room over to amenities, I know in my town the council had to get tough with them after several tried to weasel their way out of planning conditions by claiming "we can't afford to build the green space we said we would when we got permission", or "it'll cost us too much if we have to actually allow for those small retail premises we said we would".
Click to expand...
Yes this is why the hysteria is even more daft. Most of our towns and cities are so old, they are already laid out as 15 minute cities, where you can walk most places you need to.

This idea exists to stop the rot of brainless housing development that forces people into their cars to do anything.

The Facebook conspiracy nutcases have got a hold of it and turned it into another ridiculous boogeyman for people to be scared of.
 
That Jekka Gal said:
What, if I may ask, is "discredited clickbait" here?
Click to expand...

Others have already addressed that:

b0rn2sk8 said:
What Oxford is proposing is NOT a 15 minute city. It's a very aggressive mass traffic calming measure, it's very much a new take on a congestion charging zone/system.

To re-iterate, this has nothing to do with a 15 minuite city which is a town planning concept and has nothing to do with road pricing measures.
Click to expand...

Diddums said:
@That Jekka Gal you done pretending to be a woman yet?
Click to expand...
 
Werewolf said:
Any European town or city will likely already meet the criteria because they were built before the car, ...
Click to expand...

It's not so much that they were built before the car. Is that they went down route of making cars dominant. Then realized they didn't love how that turned out. So did a U-Turn to make people dominant not cars.


This isn't an issue of physical limitations. It's an issue of mindset. I'm as guilty as anyone else hopping in the car too much.
 
OspreyO said:
It's not so much that they were built before the car. Is that they went down route of making cars dominant. Then realized they didn't love how that turned out. So did a U-Turn to make people dominant not cars.


This isn't an issue of physical limitations. It's an issue of mindset. I'm as guilty as anyone else hopping in the car too much.
Click to expand...

It sort of is though but not in the way you’ve set out.

The 15 min thing only really works with medium density housing and above (ideally with mixed use buildings) which is much more common in Europe than the U.K.

Outside of the very centre of almost all U.K. cities and you drop to low density housing and there is very little medium density and hardly any high density. Even London is relatively low density compared to most European cities, it’s a massive urban sprawl in reality.

European cities are physically smaller but more densely populated and that makes the 15 min thing much more viable.

You just can’t get enough people into a given area to make it viable out in the ‘burbs’ with single family dwellings. The services and business simply aren’t viable and as such a car is basically required.
 
Last edited:
In the modern era of eBikes and bikes and multi modal options you can make it work for med and low density even for longer distances than expected. People just don't want to get out of the car.
 
Last edited:
mid_gen said:
Yes this is why the hysteria is even more daft. Most of our towns and cities are so old, they are already laid out as 15 minute cities, where you can walk most places you need to.

This idea exists to stop the rot of brainless housing development that forces people into their cars to do anything.

The Facebook conspiracy nutcases have got a hold of it and turned it into another ridiculous boogeyman for people to be scared of.
Click to expand...


Even more amusingly the Facebook rabble who are so against this concept are of an age when growing up they would have had a GP, school, green grocer, butcher, pub, social club, cricket club blah blah all within 15 minutes.
 
Kenai said:
15 minute cities as a planning concept does not necessitate anything beyond ensuring that all key amenities are available within given timescales/distances.
Click to expand...
As someone that lives in Cardiff, can confirm that 15 minute cities are already here and great. This has happened organically considering you can walk from one side of Cardiff City to the other in about 15 mins.

The areas are pedestrianised and the roads are bus friendly. Whenever I go into the city (I don't live inside the city), I catch a 10 min train and I'm in. No queuing to park, no faff about what car park will have space.

It's a bloody wonderful idea. The 10 minute train journey and 5 mins walk always beats the 25-30 minute drive sitting in traffic, and then having to park and get where you're going.
 
Mr Badger said:
Others have already addressed that:
Click to expand...
well, you're splitting hairs here. Maybe a 15 minute city in its pure form doesn't incorporate enforcement measures but what's going down in Oxford most certainly does.

Just been chatting with my my brother and it seems they have something similar planned for my own home town of Bath, whether or not it's backed up by any form of coercion, I don't know but reading between the lines here, I'm assuming it will.

I think their terminology of creating 4 traffic "cells" withinh the city is also somewhat misfortunate.

Anyway, they've declared a climate emergency so make of it what you will.

"Now that we have declared a Climate Emergency, it is our responsibility to provide safe, convenient alternatives to the car, and enable people to use these, to support our objective of carbon neutrality by 2030, and help protect the future of our planet. This will also have the effect of improving public health through reduced pollution, and more active journeys".

Anyway, I'm sure Bath's very own golden gal, Sharron Davies, will be on the case in the HOL. She's very good is our Shaz.
 
Last edited:
as an aside:

Buju Banton: The Most Vocal Critic​

Buju Banton has been the most outspoken figure in Reggae regarding government overreach and freedom of movement.

  • The Stance: During the pandemic and the subsequent push for digital IDs and "smart cities," Buju was incredibly vocal on social media.
  • The Message: He argued that the "system" was using fear to trick people into giving up their fundamental rights. His song "Buried Alive" and his various social media "sermons" directly attack the idea of a technocratic, controlled society.
  • Relevance to Oxford: If you asked Buju about 15-minute cities, he would likely call them "Babylonian cages."
 
Last edited:
That Jekka Gal said:
as an aside:

Buju Banton: The Most Vocal Critic​

Buju Banton has been the most outspoken figure in Reggae regarding government overreach and freedom of movement.

  • The Stance: During the pandemic and the subsequent push for digital IDs and "smart cities," Buju was incredibly vocal on social media.
  • The Message: He argued that the "system" was using fear to trick people into giving up their fundamental rights. His song "Buried Alive" and his various social media "sermons" directly attack the idea of a technocratic, controlled society.
  • Relevance to Oxford: If you asked Buju about 15-minute cities, he would likely call them "Babylonian cages."
Click to expand...
OP, put the LLM down. There is no conspiracy for 15 minute cities. They exist. They are already here. It's just a term the US has become slightly paranoid about because of their car-centric infrastructure. We don't have any such issues here.

15 minute cities are not about traffic control or subjugating the population. It's a blueprint for walkability and convenience. That's all.
 
OspreyO said:
People just don't want to get out of the car.
Click to expand...

This is exactly it. People believe the only way to travel anywhere is by personal car, no matter how short the trip could be. And the result is, we are not imprisoned by traffic filters but by the endless traffic jams within towns and cities. It is dreadful where I live and nothing is being done to combat it, so every year the situation gets worse as they build more houses. I get to the office and hear complaints from colleagues about how it took 30 minutes to drive 2 miles. Meanwhile I cycle the 1.5 miles in, which always takes me exactly 6 minutes to do, and regularly get comments about how quick I am on a bike. My bike is the only one parked up in the cycle shelter, I do wonder how bad things will get before others will follow?



Things I can get to within 15 minutes walking:
Many convenience stores
A full sized supermarket
3 pharmacies
A full sized hospital with A&E
5 secondary schools, SEND school and a primary school
A children's nursery (literally on my street)
A full selection of the common takeaways
2 gyms
several barbers
2 pubs


The question is, why wouldn't you want all these things in easy reach?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom