17 year old girl allowed to kill herself Legally

[B&W]

https://news.sky.com/story/girl-17-dies-after-being-legally-euthanised-in-the-netherlands-11734815

I don't know why this is allowed to happen to someone at the age of 17, at that age you don't even know what's happening with your own body you have all sorts of feelings dragging you everywhere.

I did read she was raped and had a lot of issues but that does not mean her future is doomed. She was physically fine and could have contributed to society.

Perhaps she would have committed suicide anyway but in no way should it be allowed by the authorities.

This sets a dangerous precedent and is tbh disgusting, liberalism and freedom gone too far in this case.

 

[B&W]

because it's none of your ****ing business, and you wanting to dictate who lives and dies and insinuating that they don't know what they want or what they want to live w/ is what's disgusting.
it's their choice and has **** all to do w/ you, end of story.

It's all of our business if a impressionable youngster who is still growing up decides to terminate her own life due to depression.

Society is what we make it.

I have had depression and it is bad but in no way does it determine your future. I have been imprisoned, had the mental shock of almost killing someone (accidentally) so I know pain.

Perhaps if you have a child, and one day they say to you I want to end it I wonder what you will say then.

Life is a gift, most of our experiences are happy ones we are emotional creatures.

Someone living in a society where you can achieve so much yet decides to throw it down the drain due to depression/abuse is very wrong and I find it abhorrent.

To me it is another example of what happens when society looses core moral values.

 

[B&W]

all of which is all your opinion and nothing to do w/ her. their body, up to them, no matter how much you don't like it. doubtless you're an antiabortionist etc as well. tough **** if you think it's abhorrent, i'm more of the opinion that the abuse that started this is the abhorrent issue. she's lived w/ this for years, so it's not like a whim decision. if your stance is that you would deny her and force her to live w/ it longer, or force her into some other form of suicide, you're abhorrent too. and that's about the least I can say on that opinion otherwise the mods would just pull the post.

What kind of nonsense is "their body so it's up to them"?

She is 17 years old, she is a child despite legally 16 being seen as adulthood due to the onset of puberty it does not mean one has all the experience or knowledge to be able to make such a decision.

My stance is she needed help/support and the lack of that help is the real problem here.

You should help others who are suffering, not legalise there death and eliminate them from society.

To me this is just as bad as the Nazis euthanising (through painless means they thought it was ok too) they deemed not fit for society.

 

[B&W]

Reading around, it seems that there's a bit of a different story to the one the UK press ran with.



Emphasis is my own.

Ok so not as bad as initially thought, but still is assisted suicide of a teenager.

 

[B&W]

She got help and support, from her family, the medical profession, the social services. None of it helped. I'll put this here again:



You think you know her situation better than her family, doctors and herself? The choice to end a life in this case was, and always would be a last resort.

Perhaps not enough help or the right kind of help. Well they gave up on her, that's enough for me to say it is wrong.

 

[B&W]

I wonder how the busy body "think of the children" posters feel now the truth is revealed that this girl starved herself to death, what a pleasant and humane way to die



It is a gift only in your opinion, I'd argue it's a curse that is forced upon us

Life is a curse?

I'm guessing you suffer from depression and hence you feel that way. Perhaps one day you will feel different.

How about all of us who have been through depression and recovered to live a happy life?

 

[B&W]

Good work.



No it's not. Assisted suicide by definition requires a positive action to assist, not the refusal to force feed.

Same bloody thing just replace a needle for starvation.

 

[B&W]

They let her have agency over her own body. Out of everything in this world, I believe that only I should have the right to decide what happens with me. If i'm not directly affecting someone else (such as being pregnant), why should anyone else have a say over what I do with my body?

I agree up to the point of affecting others or killing yourself.

Sorry, just can't accept suicide as legitimate. To me it is a waste of life and future. An unnatural end to existence.

Nothing to do with religion.

 

[B&W]

what kind of nonsense and arrogance is it to assume you know what's best for her? who the **** do you think you are? the fact you're dragging Nazi enforced killings into something that's based on a mentally stable person's free choice just reinforces my opinion of you. and dont' come that "if she wants to die she's not stable" bull****, she sounds a lot more coherent and level headed than you. what kind of sick entertainment would you get forcing a rape victim to live w/ those feelings?

First of all calm the **** down.

It's neither it's called empathy for another being, right now she was in a stage where her life was awful it doesn't mean she will always be like that.

Life changes, people change its never static or the same. Someone could have killed her mother and she might have wanted revenge and thus found something to live for.

Now I know that is dark but logically it is possible.

In war rape is used as a weapon, the survivors despite being scarred for life by such monstrous actions do often survive and live content lives.

It was a relevant example as they(Nazis) deemed such people not fit to live and certain people here are whether they see it or not making the same argument.

 

[B&W]

Not really any of your business, I'd call it more enduring than suffering and nihilistic existentialism than depression



And perhaps I won't, but I'm not given a choice because most do not understand because they're programmed to think suicide/death is a taboo and a scary thing and as such wish to force their view of life onto others who do not feel/think the same way

No offence but the reason people view death as a taboo is because when it is happens due to unnatural causes it causes suffering on the family of the deceased. Perhaps they have a right too...

We are all responsible for each other, that is how a healthy society functions. A dead person has no use.

The whole reason for depression is a desire to be happy, by killing that person you never allow him or her any chance to achieve happiness.

 

[B&W]

What if we do not wish to be a part of your stupid society ?

But I thought life was a gift ? Gifts usually don't come with conditions of societal servitude

If everyone thought like that there would be chaos, anarchy. All sorts of madness would be rationalised.

Life is a gift, it's up to you how to use it. Servitude is a strong word, but we are reliant on each other to a degree.

 

[B&W]

But it isn't, there's trillions of different living organisms on this planet, entire species have come & gone over billions of years & we have even played a part in extinguishing that life and continue to do so, in order to survive we must kill a living organism be it an animal or a plant, but life, it's precious Hell we're quite comfortable extinguishing each other over ideologies

We're not even the equivalent of a grain sand in the universe, not even comparable to atoms most likely, do we consider how precious and important each grain of dirt we walk on is ? do we think how precious the atoms that bind us are ?

We are more important then grains of sand, this is obvious. Just look around you, I don't need to explain this it is self evident.

And when monkeys create civilisation then they are as important as us. Until then our lives mean more then any animal on this earth.

 

[B&W]

And when the earth is gone, and you weigh the contributions of you and the grain of sand.....
You both achieved nothing

Who says there will be nothing left to remember mankind?

Voyager 2 has crossed interstellar space and if it is ever stumbled across by other intelligent beings then that is more then enough to prove our worth on the cosmic scale.

We can leave so many signs of our civilisation in our own solar system and local galaxy.

Hairless apes? No we are more then that, do not keep trying to drag us down.

 

[B&W]

You may or may not be right, but there is no argument to support your position in this post. Creating civilisation doesn't mean you're more valuable, I suspect most of us contribute very little to the creation of civilisation - whatever that means.

So what do we value then, monkeys flinging **** at each other?

What do we aspire to? To be content with living in caves?

 

[B&W]

Well, I meant you personally, as the 99.99999% of us will not leave anything.
Voyager 2 my well keep going for the rest of all time, but the chances of anything intelligent seeing it are beyond reasoning.... the universe is too big for it to ever be found

When we die we live on in our children and there children, that's what we leave behind genetically.

And whether it may or may not be detected is not that important as it's mere existence is proof of our superiority over other earth creatures.

Plus we can build so much more that has more chance of being detected.

 

[B&W]

Puberty starts in girls between 10 and 14 so I don't know where you get 16 from. That would be considered quite a late onset of puberty in girls. At 17 she was still a minor under Dutch law but that is not relevant as anyone from the age of 12 can be considered.

You have zero knowledge of what support she did or didn't get. Stop thinking you know better than her or her family and medical team.

The Nazi comment is frankly ridiculous and very offensive.


Where is your empathy for a person who is suffering every day? You have no idea of the psychological and physical pain she suffered from every day and while you try to claim you are the one that has the empathy your statement shows you don't, you just care on what your opinions are, not how she felt and wanted to do with her life.

Wow that is an insight into your mind. That living for revenge of a murdered parent would be better than dying to end a thoroughly miserable life. I'd rather take death thanks than suffering the pain of a murdered parent and then a life filled with a feelings of revenge. Can't think many worse reasons for living than revenge.

Comments like make me sick. You again like to claim you are a person with great empathy but clearly have zero understanding of what people who have been raped suffer. I know several women who have been raped, I had a girlfriend who was repeatedly raped as a child and at 30 years old she still suffered horrific PTSD that could be triggered by the smallest thing and she would revert to a child in terrible suffering. To my shame I couldn't cope with it and the relationship ended. She had been in therapy from 18 years of age, so 12 years and still she suffered, she is probably still suffering to this day if she hasn't ended her life. We completely lost touch after we broke up and she moved away. You should look up the suicide rates for abused children and the crime rates. To try and claim that people get over it and move on is a joke. Even those who might appear ok on the outside I would bet are still suffering the effects, you are just unaware of them. Stop trying to force your opinions on others. You don't know better than her family and her medical team. I applaud the Netherlands for their open minded view on these matters.

I meant puberty in general, she is near the end I know but still not fully developed into an adult.

She said she wanted her book to help vulnerable youngsters who struggle with life, saying that the Netherlands does not have specialised institutions or clinics where teenagers can go for psychological or physical aid.

Enough knowledge to say that there wasn't enough help for her and that's straight from her!

We, her parents, want her to choose the path of life. Noa really doesn't want to die at all. She only longs for peace,' Lisette said

So her mother is agreeing her daughter needed more help, not to die.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...l-17-legally-ends-life-euthanasia-clinic.html

Why is it so ridiculous? Ok, fair enough the nazis forced euthanasia and sterilisation and this is voluntary euthanasia so there is difference.

But the moral behind the euthanasia is still the same, that the person isn't fit for life.

I have been through depression as a teenager, so I know how it feels actually before you get on your moral high horse. Right now, I am happy in life and if I had done something silly at a young age I wouldn't have appreciated this happiness. Not to mention the harm on family it would have had.

It was an anecdote that somethings can motivate people to loose that depression and give some "meaning" to that individual's life.

So you would rather die then avenge the death of your loved ones? That speaks volumes about you and your morals.

I do not know how it feels like nor will I even pretend but I put it at the top of the worst crimes along with murder (the rapist should be castrated IMO and jailed significantly).

Unfortunately your ex still suffered from it, but I do believe many people have lived happy and fulfilling lifes inspite of rape.

See how you are forcing your opinions on others now?

At least what I believe does not sanction death for depressed teenagers. To me it is another example of the failure of modern society to integrate young vulnerable people into society and how "freedom of choice" is being exploited to perverse ends.

 

[B&W]

Well some of the responses are showing how lame/weak and pathetic society is becoming. It is not a good sign for the future.

 

[B&W]

The alternative in this case was forced feeding, potentially for years. Probable hospitalisation or sectioning. Suicide watch to prevent self harm.

Would you want that to be ongoing potentially for the rest of her life?

Please answer the question.

No that is not the only alternative. Perhaps forced feeding for a while through drip, eventually limit it and give her other options. But it seems she has been failed before this. To get into such a position in the first place, I do blame parents tbh.

 

[B&W]

I can't believe that last part. Wow
Id say its torture not to let the person take their own life

Just because you value life doesn't mean she does It really gets me how even though we all die people seem to want to prolong others lives often no matter what.

Ending life is a can be a cure. It's extreme but it is.

It's tantamount to murder when the deceased is a young teenager with no physical difficulties just mental ones. And no I am not belittling mental problems, my own sister was sectioned as a teenager I know better then most here of it's horrors hence why I am so against this voluntary euthanasia.

And make no mistake, that is what this thing is actually about. Yes the original article was incorrect but she still was allowed to die instead of being fed fluids through a drip. Her pain must have been awful part of me thinks at least she doesn't experience that anymore but then she has no chance of ever feeling happiness, of ever loving someone ever again.

The example set by the Dutch authorities will set a precedent that it is ok to give up on the mentally ill and severely depressed. As this is getting more and more prevalent in modern society it does set a worrying standard.

 

[B&W]

It's indeed precisely because liberal values are a thing that you even have rights in the first place, an authoritarian would seek to control people's ability to do as they please. Like force feeding someone who has given up.

I am well aware of that and mention it to many other people all the time that because of liberal values you have the same rights as others. But there are limits on everything, and in this case it is a step too far.