18+ Steam game in the news…

...with humour and character development. Yes, it’s violent and can be depraved, within that wider context. Even then, bits can be iffy such as the torture scenes.

bits can be iffy such as gunning down civilians.
So, basically, if a game has rape that is done with humour and character development, then it would be iffy. But humourless rape should be banned. But shooting civilians is iffy, even if humourless...
In other words: death to RL rapists, terrorists should get 5 years max, and maybe walk free if they are particularly charismatic and funny.
Where's the line?

Kiddy porn games are ok?
Ethnic cleansing is quite fun?
Torturing animals is a great laugh?
Kiddie porn was discussed on the previous page. Everything else was literally done to death in horror flicks and books.
 
So, basically, if a game has rape that is done with humour and character development, then it would be iffy. But humourless rape should be banned. But shooting civilians is iffy, even if humourless...
In other words: death to RL rapists, terrorists should get 5 years max, and maybe walk free if they are particularly charismatic and funny.

The point was more: ‘it depends’.

You can’t really make sweeping generalisations. There will always be an exception.

‘Four Lions’ - a comedy film about a terrorist plot. Provocative, but generally not considered to be obscene.

‘Irreversible’ - a film involving a very shocking murder and a gruelling rape scene that’s extremely uncomfortable. Also generally not considered to be ‘obscene’ because you’re not supposed to find it harrowing… not ‘enjoy’ it.

Clearly, it depends.
 
People aren’t really suggesting that all of these things are ‘the same’… are they?! :confused: :eek:
From earlier posters in this thread, yes.
There is zero contextual difference between cod, GTA and no mercy.
Smh.

People are not saying they are the same. They are pointing out the complications of banning certain video games based on selectively deeming certain content inappropriate, when other games exist with content which is also illegal in real life. This leads to a slippery slope of trying to determine which content should be allowed, and how and who decides this. Of course certain things are worse and on different levels to other things, but in the eyes of the law, it seems odd that we would allow some things which are illegal in real life to appear in games, but not other things.
It would be a bit like stealing a Mars bar vs stealing 10 bottles of spirits. Both are illegal, but lets punish the one who stole more. It's only a single Mars bar right?
 
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‘Irreversible’ - a film involving a very shocking murder and a gruelling rape scene that’s extremely uncomfortable. Also generally not considered to be ‘obscene’ because you’re not supposed to find it harrowing… not ‘enjoy’ it.

What if somebody does enjoy "Irreversable", or finds this stupid game "harrowing"? And you've not touched upon the horror industry.
‘Four Lions’ - a comedy film about a terrorist plot. Provocative, but generally not considered to be obscene.
Four Lions is absolutely brilliant in my book. But I know people who say it should be banned.
 
It would be a bit like stealing a Mars bar vs stealing 10 bottles of spirits. Both are illegal, but lets punish the one who stole more. It's only a single Mars bar right?

That actually does happen though I.e. greater punishments for higher value thefts.

There are levels to everything and while individuals may have different thresholds there’s usually a general consensus for stuff that sails brilliantly close to the edge like Rockstar do with GTA and stuff that’s just obscene.
 
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That actually does happen though I.e. greater punishments for higher value thefts.

Yes absolutely, but with games, we can't apply that apart from giving it a certificate rating like 12, 15, 18. That's all they can do. The next step is banning it entirely. Which leads us to the problem of having games/films with differing levels of illegal activities. It's not easy to fix.
 
People are not saying they are the same. They are pointing out the complications of banning certain video games based on selectively deeming certain content inappropriate, when other games exist with content which is also illegal in real life. This leads to a slippery slope of trying to determine which content should be allowed, and how and who decides this. Of course certain things are worse and on different levels to other things, but in the eyes of the law, it seems odd that we would allow some things which are illegal in real life to appear in games, but not other things.

It’s funny you mention that as I was independently about to mention that, in reality, this is how our legal system actually works.

We have laws. We apply those laws to the facts of a case / dispute and we get outcomes. Outcomes shape how facts should be interpreted and how laws should evolve.

^^^ The entire set-up enables flexibility and for things ‘to depend’ on how the facts / contexts stack up.

There is nothing inherently wrong with making decisions on circumstances, one at a time. It’s what makes the most sense.

What if somebody does enjoy "Irreversable", or finds this stupid game "harrowing"?

Yes, what if they do…? It’s an open question.

Again, it depends. What is the actual outcome of it? Is that expected or anticipated? Is it unusual or common?

Generally, we ought not to prohibit things on the mere basis that some people take an unusual perverted pleasure from it.

For the purposes of ‘horror films’, of which I am generally a fan, the enjoyment there comes from titillation from the macabre. Again, there is a grey area. Sometimes, things are too depraved and are deemed obscene / banned. This has changed over time.

The few horror films that remain edited / banned do generally (so far as I know) overly focus on the unnecessary suffering of another in a depraved way.

Again, just because ‘it depends’, doesn’t mean things can’t be navigated on a case by case basis.
 
Yes absolutely, but with games, we can't apply that apart from giving it a certificate rating like 12, 15, 18. That's all they can do. The next step is banning it entirely. Which leads us to the problem of having games/films with differing levels of illegal activities. It's not easy to fix.

There are levels to everything, so it's not a problem per se, and the bar for what's considered appropriate or not has moved throughout history, it doesn't have to remain static.

It's not that it's an easy solution either, we shouldn't just do what's easy.
 
For the purposes of ‘horror films’, of which I am generally a fan,
Just for the record, I'm not at all a fan of horror, and also wonder what normal (!) people get out of watching some prolonged torture with a drill and a circular saw. But I respect their liberty and let them get on with it. Because i know that the proverbial Four Lions would be next on the chopping block.
Again, just because ‘it depends’, doesn’t mean things can’t be navigated on a case by case basis.
In this case, the game in question at very least deserves a thorough analysis and comparisons with similar media. not a knee jerk reaction - sex and violence (i.e. offended sensibilities)? Ban!
 
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Just for the record, I'm not at all a fan of horror, and also wonder what normal (!) people get out of watching some prolonged torture with a drill and a circular saw. But I respect their liberty and let them get on with it.

In truth, I can’t think of many films that have such prolonged scenes of violence.

Even films such as ‘Hostel’ - which does specifically concern kidnapped and tortured persons - does have bursts of intense violence but, again, it’s done in a way that is not celebrating and encouraging the idea.

One film that really did go too far, IMO, was Cannibal Holocaust because that contains a lot of ‘real life’ animal slaughter for the sake of entertainment and I think most people agree (including the director) that this was taking it too far.

In this case, the game in question at very least deserves a thorough analysis and comparisons with similar media. not a knee jerk reaction - sex and violence? Ban!

I think it’s probably ‘sexual violence’ (combined) that makes most people uncomfortable, because sex is so intimate and forced sex is so ‘violating’.

Anyway, that’s probably all I have to say on the topic so will leave it there (floor open).
 
UK banning things that are not real, while allowing REAL things to go on by gangs unchallenged :cry:

All it will do is make this game more popular and push it underground! GG :rolleyes:
 
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It may just be a thought process you don't agree with, which is fine.

There is a bit of a circle jerk going on at LBC about their successful "campaign" to get this game banned, but as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread all that it has done is publicise it. Even though Steam have delisted it for the UK, you'll still be able to obtain it if you wanted to.

Now, if they were campaigning on Valve having stricter processes in place before a game is made available on their service then sure, I'm up for that debate.

Thing is, I don't care for many games on the platform due to taste and lines of what I find entertaining, but I really don't want to go around with a puritan ban hammer telling people what they can and cannot like - so I just hide it from myself. If I were to have children, I'd also be keeping an extremely close eye on what they can see and have access to using a combination of communication, technical and behavioural restrictions on them, not blaming gaben for allowing content on the platform when video games since the dawn of their inception has had all sorts of questionable content in them. I was 11 I think when I was tipping strippers in Duke Nukem ffs.
 
World is messed up when you have people arguing for a rape game to be accessible on a platform accessed by a lot of children. I've always had an issue with the porn stuff too, put it on a sister platform if you must have it. Call it SteamX or something. The filter is a poor excuse against it being on another platform.

edit: Maybe people should question why we don't have porn on TV in the day, why scenes aren't explicit. Why youtube doesn't show porn, why large social platforms like tiktok ban it? Maybe you should argue BUT MUH RIGHTS, WHY ARE YOU NANNYING US. Maybe everything should be uncensored according to certain people, why don't we show real war footage, people blown to bits? Why was live leak banned? I could go on but then people would argue that I'm clutching pearls right?

And people wonder why incel culture takes hold and people like tate etc become popular. Why knife crime is so prevalent, why kids just want to be gangsters, why young girls are caking themselves in makeup trying to act like grown women. It's culture, culture is influenced by media whether you like it or not. The rise of social media has had some severe effects on society. There comes a point where we need to start drawing lines to protect the easily influenced. Not everyone is able to calmy analyse what they are seeing or separate it from reality, especially children still learning about the world.
 
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Difficult problem. If you ban games like this, where will it end? Conversely if you don't, where will that end?
As a consumer you can only vote by either buying it or not.
The worst thing that can happen is having the decision made for you by a politician, or perhaps even worse still: a gremium.
 
World is messed up when you have people arguing for a rape game to be accessible on a platform accessed by a lot of children. I've always had an issue with the porn stuff too, put it on a sister platform if you must have it. Call it SteamX or something. The filter is a poor excuse against it being on another platform.

edit: Maybe people should question why we don't have porn on TV in the day, why scenes aren't explicit. Why youtube doesn't show porn, why large social platforms like tiktok ban it? Maybe you should argue BUT MUH RIGHTS, WHY ARE YOU NANNYING US. Maybe everything should be uncensored according to certain people, why don't we show real war footage, people blown to bits? Why was live leak banned? I could go on but then people would argue that I'm clutching pearls right?

And people wonder why incel culture takes hold and people like tate etc become popular. Why knife crime is so prevalent, why kids just want to be gangsters, why young girls are caking themselves in makeup trying to act like grown women. It's culture, culture is influenced by media whether you like it or not. The rise of social media has had some severe effects on society. There comes a point where we need to start drawing lines to protect the easily influenced. Not everyone is able to calmy analyse what they are seeing or separate it from reality, especially children still learning about the world.
Name checks out.
 
World is messed up when you have people arguing for a rape game to be accessible on a platform accessed by a lot of children. I've always had an issue with the porn stuff too, put it on a sister platform if you must have it. Call it SteamX or something. The filter is a poor excuse against it being on another platform.

edit: Maybe people should question why we don't have porn on TV in the day, why scenes aren't explicit. Why youtube doesn't show porn, why large social platforms like tiktok ban it? Maybe you should argue BUT MUH RIGHTS, WHY ARE YOU NANNYING US. Maybe everything should be uncensored according to certain people, why don't we show real war footage, people blown to bits? Why was live leak banned? I could go on but then people would argue that I'm clutching pearls right?

And people wonder why incel culture takes hold and people like tate etc become popular. Why knife crime is so prevalent, why kids just want to be gangsters, why young girls are caking themselves in makeup trying to act like grown women. It's culture, culture is influenced by media whether you like it or not. The rise of social media has had some severe effects on society. There comes a point where we need to start drawing lines to protect the easily influenced. Not everyone is able to calmy analyse what they are seeing or separate it from reality, especially children still learning about the world.

The platform is the internet.

The ONLY way you keep this stuff away from kids is depriving them of technology that allows them access to the internet. If you think that before giving a child a PC that can access Steam, the means to purchase games, and without ensuring there is any filters or any lockdown to block games that are clearly for adults there should be laws and government intervention before your responsibility as a parent/guardian then that's a big problem. 'Won't somebody think of the children!?!' is the starting point for many curtailments of freedom.

The big part of the experience of being a child is boundary pushing, and you'll be forever playing whack-a-mole with any sort of ban/age walling/controls/etc as there will always be resources out there the to help get around it and there will always be that kid that shows you how to do it, where the porno mags are, has some warped view of something they've heard about from older kids etc etc etc. Approaching it from the basis of they will be exposed to this stuff but giving them the tools to navigate and understand it will give them the internal protection they need as they grow into adults. Problem is that approach is hard, it requires attention from parents and I understand that is difficult in a modern world. I'd argue that the requirement for both parents to be out at work combined with the internet being used as a parental tool is the bigger harm as they then don't have the time or relationships built in order to discuss what they have seen/heard/read and instead go to Reddit for guidance :(

I reckon the harder you push this stuff to be behind walls, the worse it will get. The content will go to places where there they can avoid restriction and will get even more extreme, and kids will go to where the "good stuff" is and it will start to funnel them into the darker places of the net.
 
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