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- Thread starter Kreeeee
- Start date
Overhead squat looks mental, I think I'd break myself trying that!
The other 3 all look interesting so I might start with low bar and cycle the others once I stop progressing.
Choose one as a main and use the others as assistance, if you cycle them you will eventually stall in all 3. For overall strength low bar squat. Use front squat and high bar to work the ranges that the low bar does hit, and they are also different movements so activation and muscle utilisation is different.
I can't agree with that.
Obviously I'm not against squat variant being used as assistance as that's what I've been doing for ages.
However:
a) Kreeeeeee isn't a powerlifter, so the idea of primary vs. assistance movements is a little redundant.
b) Saying that you'll stall kind of completely contradicts Westside's Conjugate Method. For example, have I lost strength in my BOR after not doing it for ages? Not really. Any difference in weight lifted is based in technique, your baseline strength doesn't drop off much.
c) I would like to know how you've defined "overall strength", and why you think low bar is better for it
Proper high bar squats are better in terms of general athletic development.I can't agree with that.
Obviously I'm not against squat variant being used as assistance as that's what I've been doing for ages.
However:
a) Kreeeeeee isn't a powerlifter, so the idea of primary vs. assistance movements is a little redundant.
b) Saying that you'll stall kind of completely contradicts Westside's Conjugate Method. For example, have I lost strength in my BOR after not doing it for ages? Not really. Any difference in weight lifted is based in technique, your baseline strength doesn't drop off much.
c) I would like to know how you've defined "overall strength", and why you think low bar is better for it
a) why is primary vs assistance redundant? even for non power lifters there will be key exercises and assiantance exercises, so assistance movements are not redundant regardless of training.
b) based on kreees words that he would change over when he plateaus that would mean he would stop the current type of squat he wants to go with and change to another squat variant, moving to a new squat will mean dropping the weight and relearning the new squat movement. I am not aware of the westside conjugate metho in detail, but would assume it is something that is best used for the more advanced lifter that can switch between movements with out having to spend a few weeks learning each and then being able to push to maximum at said movements. I am sure you would agree that maxing out once a week on a movment you have no idea how to carry out is far from the smartest thing to do. So in the context of a begineer choosing a mian squat and sticking to it while using the others as assistance would eventually give them the oppurtunity to follow the westside method. Also I never said strength would be lost, I implied that strength wouldn't be gain, this may not be completely correct, but progress would definitely not be optimal.
c)I wasn't wrong when I said low bar was best for overall strength, it is the squat variant where you can optimally lift the most. This might not be kreeees goal, in which case it isn't the ideal squat for him, if his goal is asthetics then yeap, high bar away, as he has chooses to move from high to low, on previous advise given, I had assumed that strength was more of a focus for him, hence my phrasing.
Aesthetics definitely isn't my goal with this psoriasis, I have no plans to be topless/lacking clothes anywhere!
If it helps, I just really get a kick out of going to the gym, and like challenging myself and seeing progression in everything I try.
If it helps, I just really get a kick out of going to the gym, and like challenging myself and seeing progression in everything I try.
Hmmm yeah, I took your post out of context a bit and my reply isn't 100% relevant to Kreee, I'm talking more about general programming philosophy. I'm also not completely disagreeing with your meaning, I was partially jumping on your semantics because I'm a **** when it comes to accuracy. So I'll apologise in advance to everyone, as this is going to get a bit geeky and a bit off topic
a) For any given sport, there will be movements that are considered "primary". For strength based sports these are literally just the movements in the sport (powerlifting is obvious, oly lifting also, and then you have events for strongman, etc. etc.).
If you aren't doing a sport, exercise choice is far more arbitrary. If you want to focus on rack pulls for whatever reason, then fine. If you want to do all of the variants of a squat in a week then that's fine too. Yes, your progress on any one lift won't be maximised, but that doesn't matter because it isn't part of your "sport". Obviously, if you want to maximise your progress on any one lift then you need to programme for that, but it's important to understand that this SHOULD NOT be a goal for everyone.
Random bro off the street could actually mess up his training by steering himself towards powerlifting style programmes too much, because his real goals might actually be slightly different. However, this situation is extremely common because of the availability of decent programmes. Can anyone think of a good functional strength progression that exists on the interwebs? I can't. So we end up with a situation where so many people who just want to get a bit stronger and more muscular end up doing what are essentially powerlifting progressions. In some ways this makes very good sense, these programmes do get you stronger and will add mass to most people. But are they optimal? No.
b) This point is actually where I basically agree with you. I think Kreeee should pick one type of squat for now and learn it for a few months, and then perhaps think about trying a different style. Accumulating good reps with a new technique is essential for learning, and chopping and changing will not help this at all.
All I was saying was that, in general, the cycling of different movements is perfectly acceptable. Westside is a good example of this, but under no circumstances should a beginner jump into such an advanced programme! In fact, I personally just don't like Westside, although it works for a lot of people.
c) This is where we disagree about semantics
Well, kind of.Strength development does not exactly equate to moving more weight.
WTF right?
Think of it this way. What builds stronger legs out of these two:
1) Low bar back squat 3x150kg to parallel.
2) High bar back squat 3x140kg to full knee and hip flexion.
It's no accident that the vast majority of S&C coaches choose high bar for their athletes. The overall training effect is just better for general strength development, and that's strength as quantified in terms of increasing performance and the expression of force.
There is absolutely an argument to be made about training people further into quad dominance, but this is avoided with good programming and technical coaching (which is obviously not available to people without a good coach...).
So, for those that actually bothered to read that highly irrelevant diatribe, thanks for your time
Ahhhh post of win
I won't go in to a lengthy reply because I don't really disagree with anything, and as fun as the discussion would be (especially point c as we could get really in to strength vs power talks) I wouldn't won't to clog up kreees log to much more.
Hopefully though (kreee) this goes a little way to displaying the level of knowledge around in the sports arena, and why you should never not ask questions should you have them. Plenty of answers, and if miss-guiding advise is offered there are people who are happy to point it out, and support their reasons with knowledge . It also shows that there can be many right ways to do something so sometimes finding your own groove is important.
I won't go in to a lengthy reply because I don't really disagree with anything, and as fun as the discussion would be (especially point c as we could get really in to strength vs power
talks) I wouldn't won't to clog up kreees log to much more.Hopefully though (kreee
) this goes a little way to displaying the level of knowledge around in the sports arena, and why you should never not ask questions should you have them. Plenty of answers, and if miss-guiding advise is offered there are people who are happy to point it out, and support their reasons with knowledge . It also shows that there can be many right ways to do something so sometimes finding your own groove is important.Update time!
This may be the last update I do for a while as I have started photo-therapy for my Psoriasis, which takes up 3 evenings a week.
The squats are 2" lower than my last video, just kissing the bars on the next notch down, and the OHP's are straight OHP's (much harder) so I will need to drop on those next session.
100 5x5 Squat and 125 5x5 Deadlift with tons left in the tank
This may be the last update I do for a while as I have started photo-therapy for my Psoriasis, which takes up 3 evenings a week.
The squats are 2" lower than my last video, just kissing the bars on the next notch down, and the OHP's are straight OHP's (much harder) so I will need to drop on those next session.
100 5x5 Squat and 125 5x5 Deadlift with tons left in the tank
Not posted in a while so here's an update:
Time to drop the OHP weight, and I'm approaching my limits on other lifts too (Squat, Bench, Dead).
I have my last treatment for the Guttate Psoriasis next Friday so I'll put some progress shots up then.
Time to drop the OHP weight, and I'm approaching my limits on other lifts too (Squat, Bench, Dead).
I have my last treatment for the Guttate Psoriasis next Friday so I'll put some progress shots up then.