1930s Semi Refurb - Part 1 of ... (Edition: Bathroom Relocation)

[dlockers]

Hi folks,

Job one of the 1930s semi is on the horizon. It is job one for a couple of reasons:
1. It will instigate some of the major tasks - wiring, plumbing
-- Wiring, I need to figure out the best way to route a "semi re-wire" for each room as the sockets are few and far between.
-- Plumbing, as above - best route, plus I need to relocate the water tank, several rads, hide some pipework and replace the floor mounted potterton boiler.
2. The upstairs toilet is leaking
3. The downstairs toilet seems to use about 12 gallons of water to flush
4. It enables the next major which is creating a rear bedroom out of the existing bathroom.

Now part of the reason in the switch is the house is on a semi busy road so noise is a key concern, and secondly the 2nd bedroom is just too big for my 2y/o. The current bathroom will be much cosier, warmer and away from the busy road/overlooking the garden.

Floor plan for context:


The inspiration:


The rough IKEA sketch to my dimensions:


I suppose my questions are around -
1. How to get started:
--- the room is currently plastered and then has lining paper, so I assume the plaster may be shot. Should I go back to brick and line every wall?
--- the ceiling is lathe and plaster and is sagging in one of the rooms. It looks visually "OK" but again may not stand up to bathroom wear and tear?
--- the floor needs lifting and then I'll assess services; the IKEA mock-up has the toilet sitting on the outside wall. Is there any tips on knocking into the existing drain? It'll be about 3 metres from the original waste pipe
2. Technically how to do a curbless shower (is it worth it?)?
3. Any glitches on what I have proposed?
4. Any tips on running a new plumbing system?
--- can the water tank be relocated to the loft?
--- is it worth ripping out the copper system and putting in plastic?
--- how much can do I before I pay a plumber to come in and fit the new boiler/commission the new system?
5. Any tips on wiring up the bathroom? I want a demisting mirror and a shaver/toothbrush charger ideally.

Definitely missed something but keen to hear your thoughts.

 

[dlockers]

Ceiling, We used PVC Planks type things in the bathroom looks great
Saves plastering it too haha

Curbless, ours is a low profile tray, depends on the flooring I believe

Plumbing system... speedfit!
And stick a double isolator valve on the toilet while yer doing it.

And add isolators to the hot and cold feed to your shower too (we forgot lol)

We had gas people do our heating then realised when we pulled up the flooring they'd left a load of old copper in the system capped off lol.
Pulled all the downstairs piping of redid with speedit, lagged it all anyway lol
I believe you could do all the rads n piping yerself and then leave the gas mains and the runs to the boiler for the certified people.

I would consider the planks however the external roof has an additional slope (the hip?) that makes it not totally flat.

Low profile tray is probably the way I am going to go to be honest - I just waited to bait the curbless enthusiasts!

Thanks - will probably be doing the pipework myself I think. Just need to plan the perfect (or least worst) route!

Congrats on the new house.

Your daughter will not be able to appreciate the view out of the window for a few years yet and normally once kids are asleep noise doesn't really affect them especially if they are use to it so I would really consider whether it is worth the hassle of relocating all the plumbing for this reason alone. Bedroom 2 maybe to big for her currently but would she likely move into this room when she is a little older?

I think with any house you need to live in it for a while and get a real feel for what you need/want from it, as this may differ from your ideas during the buying process.

Thanks, you are probably right - however as outlined in the main post, the 2nd bedroom is just far too big for her. The room is for sleeping and right now it is like a massive playroom to her. Bedroom 2 is also going to be my master, with Bedroom 1 becoming a guest/office room.

Totally agree on your final point though - that's why I waited to create this thread until we had been in a few days. I am now on hols in France so have some real thinking/anti distraction time!

 

[dlockers]

Can't figure out what you're trying to do with the bathroom, where's it being moved to?
The 4" poo pipe would be your biggest hurdle routing through with the right fall so it works.
Shower, avoid the curbless unless you're going to tank the whole bathroom and ditra matt it which is all costly

Seems like a load of cost for nothing more than fiddling with a layout. I'd just renew with good quality products

Bedroom 3 swaps with Bathroom.
Daughter moves to "new" Bedroom 3.
Master becomes Bedroom 2.
Office/Guest becomes Bedroom 1.

Luckily the wall the toilet is depicted against is an outside wall anyway and I have about 2.3m of space/access to drains.

One of the perks of doing a totally new bathroom is I don't need to worry too much about keeping the thing liveable. I'll be doing the renovation in my spare time and it is a pain in the arse when the little one needs a bath at 18:30 and I need to down tools/make it good.

Edit: biggest single advantage is also having a proper guest bedroom -- the current bedroom 3 isn't big enough for guest bedroom and office without significant compromises.

 

[dlockers]

My first house purchase had an almost identical footprint upstairs except the box room and the bog were reversed (Zone 4 South London, 1930s build). Moving any plumbing in that house was a nightmare because of the drop needed for waste (as said above). You could use a mascerator pump (?) but yeah, don't.

Like you I only needed 2 bedrooms (1 for Junior) and used the box room for an "office". Tight but doable.

I'm fortunate that the place is midway up a hill so even the downstairs has a proper drop into the sewer! I'll get pics on the outside when I'm back.

 

[dlockers]

Sure but I meant the water waste from the sink (under the floorboards) connecting to the main "water out pipe" needed a pump (this was from moving the kitchen to the front sitting room though so maybe different)!

Ah gotcha! Yeah that could be an issue. I'll soon tell from digging up the boards though.

 

[dlockers]

I don’t get why the daughter doesn’t have bedroom 3 and just redo the bathroom. Seems a waste of money to move it?

Bedroom 3 is small enough that it isn't sufficient for neither daughter's room or office/guest room.

Existing bathroom is perfect size for daughters bedroom.

Existing bathroom needs replacing anyway and I CBA refurbing whilst it's in full use.

Current bedroom 3 is also on a fairly busy road so windows open is a no-no for sleeping.

I think I'd agree if current bathroom didn't need tearing out anyway, but it's proper 80s vibe with carpet.

Edit: and the whole plumbing system needs an overhaul anyway. So same expense, but different location.

 

[dlockers]

@dLockers

aye our bathroom slopes with the eaves.
we ran the planks the other way so they're paneled horizontally up the slope then across the ceiling.

I'll grab a pic later


edit - sent you an convo mate

Top man, just had a look, big inspiration overall. Thanks!

Have you checked which way the joists run?

If you plan to swap bed 3 with bathroom, the main issue will be moving the soil pipe (4" /100mm can't go thru the joists)

Fyi all electrical elements in a bathroom need signed off by a sparky

Luckily the waste for the toilet can go straight out of the wall. I assume it will run the same as the existing bathroom for the sink but worst case I can get creative...

I will put that on my list as one of the first jobs tho!

What's the crack for getting water pipes through joists? Is there a trick?

 

[dlockers]

Also, if by "curb less shower" you mean a wetroom, personally I wouldn't bother as it's a lot more effort, requires a lot more skill and to be honest the differential to a 40mm shower tray can be very low. See my example below:

Set both the tray onto chipboard (or other sheet floor)
Then 6mm cement boards (tile adhesive to underside)
Then tile adhesive
Then tiles
Brings you up nearish to level

Yeah that looks spot on. Guess I'll pick up most of what I need from your thread!

 

[dlockers]

what's the houses aspect out the back windows - nicer to have south bedrooms, whereas bathroom is less important;

putting bath under window too makes it more claustrophobic, than orthogonal, where you get some exterior angled light, also, having basin against a window with (smaller) mirror is nice too for shaving etc.
Depending on space a combined kidney shaped bath/shower tray can be nice too, if stepping over edge is not an issue, rather than a smaller shower area - how bigs the tray you can fit in ?
(older parents just had bath taken out with a shower area probably 1.5*1m where you can easily turn round, previous separate one was cramped, it's a wetroom, built on a former, but didn't really need to be - buffmans looks good))

Yeah exactly that. The current bathroom looks out over the garden, allotments. It is South Easterly facing.

I'll play about with the layout. No issue with stepping over but the window was made for a bedroom so it's quite large height wise.

I've always fancied a separate shower but you're right that large than 90cm may be the only way forward. Tbc if that actually fits though!

 

[dlockers]

Rip it all back and start fresh. Ceiling, I do now favour the PVC panels.

Can I strip the plaster, then board the walls in cement board, and tile directly onto the cement board?

Its not worth swapping out good copper, but any unnecessary joins etc under floors. Get rid and replace entire runs with plastic.

I'll need to run entirely new connections -- I am thinking it makes the most sense to go via the walls, and into the attic, and then basically form a "duct" of some description from the roof to the kitchen where the boiler is. Alternatively I could put the boiler in the loft but that is a whole bunch of other challenges.

Maybe my first job is to create access in each of the rooms to the pipework so I can suss things out...

Your Ikea mock up leaves you with 2 bits of wasted space either side of bath. What size is the shower?

I need a rewire as well so similar to the plumbing; I am planning to do the runs and then get a sparks to connect it up and swap the fuse box at the same time.

Your Ikea mock up leaves you with 2 bits of wasted space either side of bath. What size is the shower?

TBC - I measured approx. 130cm available to me but the ceiling slopes at the wall. The current bathroom (mirrored) is like this:




So I figure (and apols to confuse and use the pic above but the other room currently in use!):
* Make the door open into the hall
* Shower unit where the grey cupboard is pictured, with a shower tray extending to where the bath is. This would be the entrance

Either side of the bath would be nothing - depending on bath. The picture in my OP is what it could look like.

Have you got a picture of the front & back of the property? Are you sure the waste pipe is a 100mm soil stack connected to foul drainage or is a surface water/guttering connection?

I only say this as I believe it will have issues connecting to the surface water connection (irrelevant of if they combine downstream)

Here is the side:



Looks like the guttering from the roof bins onto the extension roof which then goes into a sealed drain.

Essentially I'd have the same pipework you see on the left, mirrored to the right. I'd have to consider the drop to avoid the window but I'm sure more drop isn't an issue?

may need some head provided by a loft water tank to get good water pressure for shower, or a ground level pumped shower system, or both,
pumped mira system folks just had, has transformed the shower experience from gravity alone - turns it up to 11.

100%. Annoyingly we thought we'd hit gold with the current shower as it was pumped..........for one day only. It must have seized immediately after lol. Our last house I fitted a Mira shower with a pump though and it would strip the dirt off of you like a pressure washer

 

[dlockers]

Right chaps, I am able to use the room as an office today so I can get a better feel for the space. I've done a couple of options:

Option 1 -





Option 2:







Option 1 I like because I get separate bath and shower, but the leg room for the toilet seems pretty tight. It also leaves a bit of open floor space to move.

Option 2 is better than I expected as I used a slightly smaller shower enclosure as originally the 74cm gap was something daft like 60. It also gives much more manspreading room on the toilet.

Thoughts??

I guess Option 3 would be a shower in bath situation which to be fair isn't a bad solution either...

 

[dlockers]

Edit: Opt 3 for completeness.

 

[dlockers]

I'd go option 2 (bias as it is the layout in our current bathroom and our future one!) option 1 feels too cramp round the toilet and option 3 has no separate shower cubicle which I would also want!

Any pics you could share?

 

[dlockers]

Option 3 is best for space. Could you swap the loo and the basin in Option 2? Which end does the shower door open from?

No - toilet waste needs to go on that wall unfortunately.

 

[dlockers]

Option 3 for me, I just don't think the room is big enough for separate bath and shower

You could fit a nice bath with extended width (L shaped) at shower end and have a nice comfortable shower opposed to a cramped shower cubicle

Do you know if they are any good though? I fitted one (L shaped) for my mum years and years ago, and it just felt a bit cheap/flexible.

 

[dlockers]

Brill thanks. I guess I did buy the cheapest thing possible before as well (I was only 18).

I'll check out some cubicles in the show room to see how tight they are. Option 2 is the favourite at the moment -- I could also get a small width bath as these roll tops are likely to sit farther from the wall too.

 

[dlockers]

I’d get a small free standing bath, ours is a massive original Victorian one and we have it a couple of cm’s from the wall.

What size is the shower cubicle in your option 2 it looks pretty decent size wise to me.

Just set it to this cubicle roughly:

Victorian Plumbing - Online Bathroom Specialist.

Huge deals in our up to 60% off Big Bathroom Sale! Save on showers, baths, suites, furniture & more! 4.3/5 Trustpilot | Free Delivery Over £499* | 0% Finance.

victoriaplum.com

I think this could work?

 

[dlockers]

Yeah it isn't my first choice but it seems to solve the floor space issue!

This would probably be my choice as a 1200x800 as it has no door (something I prefer, but I know the floor will get drenched)...

Victorian Plumbing - Online Bathroom Specialist.

Huge deals in our up to 60% off Big Bathroom Sale! Save on showers, baths, suites, furniture & more! 4.3/5 Trustpilot | Free Delivery Over £499* | 0% Finance.

victoriaplum.com

 

[dlockers]

That's banging... thanks for the inspiration! I think my life would be a lot easier if I could put the toilet on the other wall, but that is just not possible without changing the hallway ceiling (although this has given me food for thought too!). Top work!

 

[dlockers]

I think you are probably right.

Is there much difference in quality in the shower enclosures?

I am looking at:

https://victoriaplum.com/product/mo...losure-with-stone-tray?options=size|900_x_760 £609 in 1200x800

or

https://victoriaplum.com/product/or...-and-stone-shower-tray?options=size|900_x_760 £395 in 1200x800

or

https://victoriaplum.com/product/mo...losure-with-stone-tray?options=size|900_x_760 £609 in 1200x800

or this from Screwfix:

Aqualux Edge 6 Semi-Frameless Offset Quadrant Shower Enclosure LH/RH Polished Silver 1200mm x 800mm x 1900mm - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Semi-frameless, polished silver-effect, aluminium enclosure with 2 x sliding doors. Creates a sleek finish whilst maximising space. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Kinda reminds me of when I did my mums bathroom... tonnes of random no-name firms selling god knows what from China. Is there a reputable brand I should be aiming for?