2 x Lotus in F1

stoke1863 · 8 Dec 2010 at 19:09

This is a strange strange situaution. I dont understand why Proton have deioced to do to do this.

Both teams have nothing to do with the real Lotus in truth, i think my backing goes to Fernandes

Monkeymatt · 8 Dec 2010 at 20:13

Right ok thanks to everybody for clearing this up, although I doubt the FIA are going to let both team have almost exactly the same name, and the same car colour?

I'm sure even if the FIA don't want something done, there will be lots of pressure from BBC etc. who I doubt will want all the confusion this will cause.

Pete19s said:
Live close to Lotus cars or Team Lotus/Lotus Racing?

I have no idea, I would take a guess at Lotus cars as from what I have heard, they paid for a very good stretch of road near the factory, to test the cars and I doubt you can test F1 cars on public roads....

Flibster · 8 Dec 2010 at 20:29

Monkeymatt said:
I have no idea, I would take a guess at Lotus cars as from what I have heard, they paid for a very good stretch of road near the factory, to test the cars and I doubt you can test F1 cars on public roads....

Sounds like Hethel then.

When I had to drive that road very early every morning, there would regularly be Elise and Esprit in the ditches where someone had been pushing a little too hard.

Often upside down too.

Kenai · 8 Dec 2010 at 20:30

Beyond the fact that they're separate teams, I can't see it being visually (ie. on track to watch) any more confusion than when Red Bull and Toro Rosso first ran together, with the cars looking quite similar.

Monkeymatt · 8 Dec 2010 at 20:50

Flibster said:
Sounds like Hethel then.

When I had to drive that road very early every morning, there would regularly be Elise and Esprit in the ditches where someone had been pushing a little too hard. Often upside down too.

Ahh yes I was trying to think of the name of the place, I live in that village starting with an M with no street lights. And so whenever I am on the road, I find it hilarious the difference between that little stretch and the rest of the shoddy roads. And also the Hethel Engineering center nearby, which again always makes me laugh as it completely does not fit in with its surroundings.

Flibster · 8 Dec 2010 at 20:51

Monkeymatt said:
Ahh yes I was trying to think of the name of the place, I live in that village starting with an M with no street lights. And so whenever I am on the road, I find it hilarious the difference between that little stretch and the rest of the shoddy roads. And also the Hethel Engineering center nearby, which again always makes me laugh as it completely does not fit in with its surroundings.

I know the one. I lived there until about 8 years ago.

Pete19s · 8 Dec 2010 at 22:08

Monkeymatt said:
I have no idea, I would take a guess at Lotus cars as from what I have heard, they paid for a very good stretch of road near the factory, to test the cars and I doubt you can test F1 cars on public roads....

Shame its a ruddy 50 limit though

Still can be fun in one of the vans!

Morbius · 9 Dec 2010 at 09:30

robbiemc said:
Jalopnik have a good feature on this with a handy Lotus organisation chart that may help!

http://jalopnik.com/5709121/lotus-returns-to-formula-one-yet-again

Only their chart isn't entirely accurate. Team Lotus and Group Lotus were always separate companies, albeit both owned by the same individual. In late 1990, Peter Collins and Peter Wright bought the team from the Chapman family and continued to run it. In 1994, the team went into administration and was bought by David Hunt. The team continued to run under Hunt's ownership until it was clear that the sponsorship just wasn't there and so the name was licensed to Pacific Racing and they ran as Pacific Team Lotus for the 1995 season.

David Hunt has been trying to get Team Lotus back into F1 properly ever since. Even when it looked like the opportunity was there to bring the team back, the FIA told him that they were holding open the only free grid spot for Honda, who were working on a test programme at the time.

What this dispute stems from is that Proton weren't sufficiently clued up when they bought Group Lotus and thought that they were getting an F1 team included in the deal. When they realised their mistake, they have been trying to use the courts to steal the F1 team rather than just buying it from the rightful owner.

Hxc · 9 Dec 2010 at 12:22

Pete19s said:
Shame its a ruddy 50 limit though Still can be fun in one of the vans!

There's only ever a camera on one of the corners once in a blue moon. I saw it twice down there and I drove that road day in day out for about 2 years.

It's was changed to a 50 after a police officer died riding a motorbike down there iirc.

Another Mulbarton person here, we're getting quite a collection!

Duke · 9 Dec 2010 at 14:33

Group Lotus may take full control over in the future.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/88635

Hxc · 9 Dec 2010 at 14:35

I'm seriously worried about the future of Group Lotus.

Chatting to my stepdad (who's been local and "involved" with Lotus a fair bit earlier in life, met the chapmans repeatedly etc) about some of the history of Lotus and the F1 team; some very amusing stories about swiss bank accounts, delorean and unregistered lamborginis in crates.

Monkeymatt · 9 Dec 2010 at 16:16

Hxc said:
There's only ever a camera on one of the corners once in a blue moon. I saw it twice down there and I drove that road day in day out for about 2 years.

It's was changed to a 50 after a police officer died riding a motorbike down there iirc.

Another Mulbarton person here, we're getting quite a collection!

I never thought I would meet anybody from Mulbarton on here

and this topic seems to have brought all of present/former Mulbartoner's together, but I guess as Lotus is the only major thing Mulbarton can boast(Apart from one of the highest crime rates in the area), it was going to happen.

But back onto the topic of Lotus, well I think we will have to wait and see what happens really, this is F1 where anything and everything can happen.

Pete19s · 9 Dec 2010 at 19:31

Monkeymatt said:
I never thought I would meet anybody from Mulbarton on here
But back onto the topic of Lotus, well I think we will have to wait and see what happens really, this is F1 where anything and everything can happen.

There is another (atleast) that I know of who doesn't venture into Motorsport forum often. Anyhoo bit gutting that autosport link, Tony has on a number of occasions hinted that he would have liked to see Classic Team Lotus, Lotus Cars and Team Lotus all under one roof in the future. Would appear that its not got a chance in hell of going ahead while Bahr is still running the show

Steeps · 10 Dec 2010 at 01:42

MG tweeting that they might be sticking with Green and Yellow for next season, it's a shame as theirs looked a lot nicer than Renault's showing.

Flibster · 10 Dec 2010 at 14:17

Rumours going around that Tony Fernandes was told to change his team name by the F1 Comission at their meeting yesterday.

So the team with the Team Lotus name and the history in F1 (1 year plus the Team Lotus history) gets pushed out by the new team...

NathanE · 10 Dec 2010 at 14:46

Colin setup the road car business to fund his Team Lotus. The two entities may not be legally linked (yet) but they were certainly linked in terms of cash flow and dodgy bank accounts in the Chapman era.

Fernandes did a good job in 2010 but Group Lotus has a greater right to the name than he does.

Even though I think people will see right through Dany Bahar's plan of buying an existing front-field team and rebranding it. People just aren't that dumb anymore. The TV coverage is too good as well.

Flibster · 10 Dec 2010 at 15:17

Apart from Lotus racing before the road car company was setup.

Admittadly, it was with modified Austin 7's for trials.

Anyway - from Tony Fernandes:

No such thing. We are team lotus as submitted.

Weebull · 10 Dec 2010 at 15:36

I find it funny that everyone's so behind Fernandes' team than Bahar's. Admittedly it's a bit of a shady move by the latter - essentially trying to muscle the other guys out - but the former aren't really any more "Lotus". They had just as tenuous a claim to the name this time last year, but now they've eventually managed to buy the name off of Hunt, and have generally been nice guys, that makes them the legit heirs to the throne?

After all, the Proton lot were never in any doubt of being the Lotus car manufacturers, and they're the ones with the proper badge on the front of their proposed car.

Lunatic Dreyfus · 12 Dec 2010 at 17:54

Q. So how many Lotus Renault's do we have now?

A. Not enough.

Whatever the answer is, I'm on Tony's side, as I've never liked the Renault/Benetton setup

pingwing said:
Just to steal from the big thread I do like this one more http://www.electroduo.com/LotusT128EF/

That's rather nice and much better than the other Lotus Renault effort... Shame we won't see it.

Noto · 12 Dec 2010 at 21:34

i think the article on BBC about did the current Renault tell their other sponsors that they would be lotus too. Can you imagine the big wigs that show up to F1 races.

"OK so errr which car are we supporting?"

Current Renault: "the faster lotus"

Tony Fernadez troop: "the original lotus"