2005 Brazilian Gran Prix

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
10,946
Location
Bristol
Can't believe people are saying that Alonso is better than Räikkönen... How many times this year has Kimi been denied win due to reliability? How many races has he started from 11th or 12th due to reliability? If the McLaren had been as reliable as the Renault Kimi would have won the championship several races ago.
 
Man of Honour
OP
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
39,748
My note the ITV...

To whoever goves a flying **** about F1... *if any of you do...*

Why? Just why?

Why does bloody Coronation Street take a higher priority than the F1 press conference and other interviews - especially when we've got the first new world champion in several years?

Why do the Coronation Steet follows this program message have to be so big - people do have access to TV guides/sky schedule/newspapers/teletext - I am also lead to believe that 95% of people who watch Coronation Street are able to read...if they use their fingers to trace the words as long as none of them are over 2 syllables

So far - the F1 program has been irritatingly poor this year.

James Allen - possibly the most annoying person on TV. No surprise that there's a Stop the **** campaign *www.sniffpetrol.com* By the way.. Could you ask him to wash his hair before going on tv - maybe even get him so wash and go for greasy hair.

Adverts...Oh..the Adverts - Football - No adverts interrupting - Oh yes - it's because Football is the "national sport.." 22 poofy hairdresses running after an inflated pigs bladder.

Go on - I dare you - start putting adverts every 15-20 mins of a football match. See how other people will take it instead of just shafting the F1 watcher.

Incidentally - End of the race - Adverts - Fair enough I can understand them.
Then we come back to see part of the Podium ceremony - them immediately after - adverts?? If you can't afford the F1 without putting a stupid number of advers in it - give it back to the BBC or...pay less for it...

If you did everything you do to F1 to football - you would have so many complaints they wouldn't know what to do. Or maybe you would - just ignore them as usual.

Thank god for A1GP - thats being run by a semi-competent sports broadcaster - WITHOUT adverts during the race itself. Still not great but a damn sight better than you pathetic excuse for a sports program.

50 Years of Broadcasting...I'm wondering how the hell you managed it.

A very very unhappy F1 fan

Simon

Think it's subtle enough?
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
4,267
Location
Lunatic asylum
//Mike said:
I think that Raikkonen has been the better driver this season, not Alonso. End of as far as I'm concerned.
So all you want to do is put your point across and ignore everyone elses?

Raikkonen's car (when not going wrong) is clearly faster than the Renault, how does that make him 'the better driver'?
When Schumacher was winning for the last few seasons you were all happy to say his car was clearly the fastest on the track, now because you like Kimi, he's the better half of the package.

Alonso has been more consistent than Kimi, made fewer mistakes and has the slower car, how that makes kimi 'better' is beyond me.
 
Associate
Joined
19 Dec 2003
Posts
1,692
Congrats to Alonso,
his driving under pressure is the best Ive seen for two decades, the talent he is up against is also the best in two decades + no cheating and no contracts tying his teammates hands behind his back, and all done in a car that wasnt vastly superior to everything else.

The current quality of drivers and cars will unfortunately not see him go on to record the most WC's and gain the hype Schumacher has.
 
Associate
Joined
19 Dec 2003
Posts
1,692
Arc said:
Kimi and Montoya are only quick now due to the McLaren being so much faster than anything else, at the start of the season they werent. .

Well at the start of the Season Montoya wasnt there LOL !!

Kimi and Montoya have both came close to Schumacher in inferior cars in seasons past, so youre having a laugh on that one too.
I guess you only started watching F1 this season then?
I have a tape of Montoya winning the last race of 2004 in a Williams LOL, do you want it? I could torrent it before you make any more silly posts :cool:
 
Associate
Joined
26 Mar 2005
Posts
2,017
Location
nr. Bath or Kensington
JBeck said:
So all you want to do is put your point across and ignore everyone elses?

Raikkonen's car (when not going wrong) is clearly faster than the Renault, how does that make him 'the better driver'?
When Schumacher was winning for the last few seasons you were all happy to say his car was clearly the fastest on the track, now because you like Kimi, he's the better half of the package.

Alonso has been more consistent than Kimi, made fewer mistakes and has the slower car, how that makes kimi 'better' is beyond me.

Well, I don't know if you bothered to read any other parts of the thread, but the discussion had been going on prior to my post you quoted. Therfore I have listened to other peoples points, rather than being the ignorant fool you seem to be trying to make me out to be.

Whilst everyone can see that the McLaren is the fastest car on track, it takes a special driver to get the most out of it. And while everyone knows that these cars are *relatively* easy to drive, I don't think that Alonso would look so easy and calm at the limit as Kimi does in the McLaren. Kimi has the ability to push the car ever harder, fastest lap after fastest lap, always hitting the apexes, always finding slightly new lines through certain corners to shave off a thousandth of a second. And yes, sometimes he does go slightly past the limit which we have seen on several occasions, and sometimes he's made the wrong decision as we saw at the European Grands Prix, but he's a true racer, he wants to win.

Alonso might want to win, but is he a true racer? From what I've seen this season he hasn't had the will or determination to push the car as far as he can at the slightest sniff of victory. He's always been comfortable enough with the bare minimum, never willing to risk a 2nd place finish for the top step of the podium. He doesn't have a big enough heart to be the best driver in the field. Kimi does.
 
Associate
Joined
19 Dec 2003
Posts
1,692
//Mike said:
Alonso might want to win, but is he a true racer? From what I've seen this season he hasn't had the will or determination to push the car as far as he can at the slightest sniff of victory. He's always been comfortable enough with the bare minimum, never willing to risk a 2nd place finish for the top step of the podium. He doesn't have a big enough heart to be the best driver in the field. Kimi does.

You never saw Alonso in Karting then?
He's probably just enjoying the rest in F1 ;)

As for being comfortable with the bare minimum, his abilty to lead and win with faster cars behind is the best Ive seen for two decades, I think the way he makes it looks easy is confusing people.
 
Associate
Joined
26 Mar 2005
Posts
2,017
Location
nr. Bath or Kensington
To be honest, you can't compare any of the different formulas on a level playing field. How many people have come out of karting, F3 etc into an F1 race seat and ended up beging flops?

I don't think his ability to lead and win with faster cars behind is as good or important a point as you are making out either.

For the first half of the season the McLarens (who let's face it are the only cars faster than the Renaults this season) had large unreliability problems. Had it not been for that Kimi (and possibly Montoya if not for the shoulder injury) would be streets ahead by now. Alonso was only winning or getting solid points finishes because the McLarens were either starting so far back, or retiring during the race that all Alonso had to do was drive an average race and he would have the points in the bag.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
11 Mar 2003
Posts
10,706
Location
Greenock, Scotland
And yet again the FIA miss and hit the wall...

FIA React to McLaren's Spa Tactics

Formula One's governing body the FIA has made a clarification in the safety car regulations following McLaren's use of clever tactics to gain advantage at the last race in Belgium.

Juan Pablo Montoya and Kimi Raikkonen were lying first and second when the safety car was called out and Raikkonen slowed the field as Montoya stopped to enable the team to clear the pit for him.

But the move appears to have upset the FIA and the governing body released a statement ahead of Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix to clarify the situation.

The FIA said: "After the teams have been informed the safety car will be deployed, any car driven at a pace we consider unnecessarily slow and that could endanger other drivers, will be reported to the stewards.

"This will apply to cars being driven on the track, the pit entry and the pit lane."

Raikonnen crawled to almost a standstill as he entered the pits at Spa, with the rest of the field bunched up heavily behind him, and Monotya had been released by the time he arrived at the pit bay.

The move enabled both drivers to come out of the pits without the usual time penalty of the second car waiting while their rivals all cost vital seconds in their stops.

Speaking before the clarification was issued McLaren team boss Ron Dennis said: "We handled it off the pit wall, it was just a little bit like a play book.

"The beauty that you have if you are lying first and second in a Grand Prix in those sorts of incidences is that you are able to facilitate that strategy.

"There are some things we use our simulation to trigger an action, there are some that is just written playbook, this happens, you do this, which was the case in Spa.

"But Spa was a very long lap so we were able to execute it in such a way that it was apparent to even the most innocent and un-knowledgeable people that it was a pretty smart thing to do."

Too smart, it seems, for the FIA, whose clarification means they can now consider action against teams opting a similar strategy in any of the races in the future.

Dennis claimed the long track at Spa-Francorchamps enabled them to execute the perfect strategy but admitted a similar move on a shorter circuit would be more difficult and could cause problems.

"On a shorter lap, and according to where it all took place, that would be a bit harder to execute," he added. "But I think they both did a pretty good job."

Why is it that the FIA take exception every time someone comes up with a clever solution to a tricky situation?
 
Associate
Joined
19 Dec 2003
Posts
1,692
//Mike said:
To be honest, you can't compare any of the different formulas on a level playing field. How many people have come out of karting, F3 etc into an F1 race seat and ended up beging flops?

I don't think his ability to lead and win with faster cars behind is as good or important a point as you are making out either.

For the first half of the season the McLarens (who let's face it are the only cars faster than the Renaults this season) had large unreliability problems. Had it not been for that Kimi (and possibly Montoya if not for the shoulder injury) would be streets ahead by now. Alonso was only winning or getting solid points finishes because the McLarens were either starting so far back, or retiring during the race that all Alonso had to do was drive an average race and he would have the points in the bag.

Sorry but Alonso not cracking under pressure like Schumacher has so many times is not a good point?

you also tried to suggest Alonso wasnt a true racer or didnt have any heart.
Regardless of whether ex karters have been flops or not, if you saw Alonso in Karting (world champion) youd have seen the ultimate opportunity in showing ones heart and racing abilty. Oh and Fisi is very quick btw, Alonso you can be sure has that extra it requires to be WC.

Reliabilty of the McLarens is not worth arguing about, every WC needs and has had luck, we could take plenty of WC's from Schumacher if you want to go down that road. :D
 
Associate
Joined
26 Mar 2005
Posts
2,017
Location
nr. Bath or Kensington
Well, you didn't say that Alonso doesn't crack under pressure like MSC, you said that he has a very good ability to win and stay infront of drivers faster than him. The two points aren't synonymous. I agree Alonso has good nerve, but he hasn't shown any ability out of the ordinary to stay infront of faster drivers.

You're right that Alonso does have the extra it requires to be WC, but at the same time, Kimi has more of whatever this 'extra' is. Kimi is a more deserving champoin as far as I'm concerned.
 
Associate
Joined
19 Dec 2003
Posts
1,692
rpstewart said:
The FIA said: "After the teams have been informed the safety car will be deployed, any car driven at a pace we consider unnecessarily slow and that could endanger other drivers, will be reported to the stewards.

And yet again the FIA miss and hit the wall...



Why is it that the FIA take exception every time someone comes up with a clever solution to a tricky situation?

I remember several years ago when Button stuffed his car after Schumacher slowed down almost to a stop on the parade lap, Button was quite annoyed because he believed they were told not to do it in the drivers briefing, all went quiet though as Schumacher (a spokesman for driver safety) seemed to be beyond any criticism at the time.
 
Associate
Joined
19 Dec 2003
Posts
1,692
//Mike said:
Well, you didn't say that Alonso doesn't crack under pressure like MSC, you said that he has a very good ability to win and stay infront of drivers faster than him. The two points aren't synonymous. I agree Alonso has good nerve, but he hasn't shown any ability out of the ordinary to stay infront of faster drivers.

You're right that Alonso does have the extra it requires to be WC, but at the same time, Kimi has more of whatever this 'extra' is. Kimi is a more deserving champoin as far as I'm concerned.

yes I did you didnt read my other post !

Watch the tape of San Marino, Schumacher had the quicker car, Alonso's ability was clear from then on for me.

Kimi could so easily have already been world champion with an ounce of luck IMO 2003?
 
Associate
Joined
26 Mar 2005
Posts
2,017
Location
nr. Bath or Kensington
SC04 said:
yes I did you didnt read my other post !

Watch the tape of San Marino, Schumacher had the quicker car, Alonso's ability was clear from then on for me.

Kimi could so easily have already been world champion with an ounce of luck IMO 2003?

Sorry, didn't see your previous post, my bad.

So, just because Alonso kept MSC behind him for one race he's now proven to be able to keep faster drivers behind him? Now, I don't know about you, but to me for someone to be a top driver and to be labelled being the best at keeping people behind him, then it's not about proving yourself once, it's about proving yourself consistently over many races.

And I'm not so sure that every World Champoin needs to have luck on his side. While it certainly helps a lot, and has helped Alonso this time, I don't think that Kimi would have needed any luck to win this one. With a more reliable car in the early season he could have done it easily.
 
Associate
Joined
19 Dec 2003
Posts
1,692
//Mike said:
Sorry, didn't see your previous post, my bad.

then it's not about proving yourself once, it's about proving yourself consistently over many races.

which is exactly what Alonso has done!

//Mike said:
I don't think that Kimi would have needed any luck to win this one. With a more reliable car in the early season he could have done it easily.

I include reliabilty in having good luck
 
Back
Top Bottom