2005 Canadian Grand Prix

olv · 12 Jun 2005 at 19:58

i didn't think what montoya did was at all dangerous... it was against the rules but not at all risky imo

he should have had a stop and go penalty rathe then being disqualified.

Fire 1 · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:01

There could be a ban for Montoya as the FIA said to mclaren after the incidents at Monaco to keep him in check. Kimi might get a fine for the pit lane incident where DC had to brake hard to avoid going into him.

Over Clocker · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:02

Red lights indicated danger. He came storming out of the pit lane just after the safety car and into slow traffic. He braked as there was no-where to fit in, and then floored it to get infront of DC.

While it didn't cause any accident today, a driver who beleives it is ok to go through the red pit lane light has little appreciation for what could have happened!

One moments hot head-ness could cause a big smash!

//Mike · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:02

I think it was dangerous, but not so much so that it warranted an immediate disqualification.

The FIA are all for improving the spectacle as a whole, and disqualifying someone isn't doing that. Why not, if it is deemed completely irresponsible and dangerous, look at it after the race, and give penalties, etc accordingly?

Anyway, am off to watch Top Gear.
Must say thanks to Flibster for some more cracking coverage and stats, it is much appreciated

Flibster · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:04

Over Clocker said:
No doubt M Schum is a very dirty driver. He's not so bad now but he was a disgrace to himself when he pushed Damon Hill out a a few years back to win the last race.

However, i agree that whan Montoya did today was pretty dangerous, and the punishment did fit the crime imo.

You missed Villeneuve out..

Tried exactly the same thing after making a mistake and broke his suspension and damaged Villeneuves car - Villeneuve nearly had to retire from the damage. True - he was excluded form the championship and given a severe warning.

Plus the numerous drivers who have been trying to overtake that he's pushed onto the grass and then complained at them for being unable to slow down.

Wouldn't be so bad - but he's been doing that since his F3 days.

As for Montoya - yes he broke the rules - it wasn't dangerous *I can't actually see why that rule is there tbh*

Black Flag - not sure thats justified - but then again since when has F1 been a level playing field...

Richard T · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:11

exciting race in Canada. lots of things to talk about!!!!

Good racing loadsa controversy, shame about the broadcast.
No live qually....first advert break on lap 5 then back out on lap 7 so 2 laps missed then another break on lap 12 and back out on lap 15 another 3 laps missed.

15 laps gone and we have missed a third of the race :mad:

great coverage ITV you should be ashamed!!! Plus having to put up with that **** Allen on the Mike :mad:

( I wish I could mute his so called commentary and just have Martin brundles)

Come on BBC get the racing back and lets have some proper broadcasting!

Richard T · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:18

Ooo Ooo can I play in the shuey bashing game!!!

Begin rant!
I think he's a dirty cheating git who has forgotton how to overtake............. shuey to pits radio...." Cars in front so I won't overtake because I can't"
Pits to shuey " don't worry we can get past them in the pit stop"....and this is a 7 times world champ!!!!!!!!!!

And don't get me started on his contract! A great driver does NOT need a contract that says his team mate is NOT ALLOWED to race him!

Pfft!

Rant over!

VirtualAdept · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:25

Flibster said:
As for Montoya - yes he broke the rules - it wasn't dangerous *I can't actually see why that rule is there tbh*

I'll agree with that, its not like it was a fast part of the circuit, but I suppose have to encompass every circuit they're at, not have one rule for montreal, another for indianapolis.

And I still think Brundle is a complete plank.

Flibster · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:39

Race Results.

Code:

[b]Pos	No	Driver			Team			Laps	Time		Grid	Points[/b]
1	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	70	Winner		7	10 
2	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			70	+1.1 secs	2	8 
3	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			70	+40.4 secs	20	6 
4	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		70	+55.1 secs	11	5 
5	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		70	+55.7 secs	14	4 
6	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			69	+1 Lap		10	3 
7	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		69	+1 Lap		12	2 
8	15	Christian Klien		Red Bull Racing		69	+1 Lap		16	1 
9	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		69	+1 Lap		8	 
10	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		67	+3 Lap		18	 
11	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	67	+3 Lap		15	 
Ret	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			62	+8 Lap		9	 
Ret	10	Juan Pablo Montoya	McLaren-Mercedes	52	Black flagged	5	
Ret	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		46	Accident	1	 
Ret	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		43	+27 Laps	13	 
Ret	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		40	+30 Laps	6	 
Ret	20	Patrick Friesacher	Minardi-Cosworth	39	+31 Laps	19	
Ret	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			38	+32 Laps	3	 
Ret	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			32	+38 Laps	4	 
Ret	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		24	+46 Laps	17

Fastest Laps.

Code:

[b]Pos	No	Driver			Team			Lap	Time		Speed		Laptime[/b]
1	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	23	13:33:17	211.061		1:14.384 
2	10	Juan Pablo Montoya	McLaren-Mercedes	24	13:34:29	210.518		1:14.576 
3	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			38	13:52:30	210.092		1:14.727 
4	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			32	13:45:13	209.697		1:14.868 
5	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			24	13:34:24	209.635		1:14.890 
6	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		30	13:42:34	208.801		1:15.189 
7	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		23	13:33:55	208.214		1:15.401 
8	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			46	14:03:49	207.996		1:15.480 
9	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		20	13:29:57	207.249		1:15.752 
10	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			44	14:01:05	207.044		1:15.827 
11	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			43	13:59:36	206.922		1:15.872 
12	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		26	13:38:30	206.723		1:15.945 
13	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		18	13:27:23	206.551		1:16.008 
14	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		14	13:22:14	206.454		1:16.044 
15	15	Christian Klien		Red Bull Racing		46	14:04:19	205.764		1:16.299 
16	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		17	13:26:16	205.454		1:16.414 
17	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		20	13:30:45	203.851		1:17.015 
18	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		19	13:29:23	202.984		1:17.344 
19	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	15	13:24:07	200.091		1:18.462 
20	20	Patrick Friesacher	Minardi-Cosworth	33	13:49:08	199.463		1:18.709

Pit Stops

Code:

[b]Stop	No	Driver			Team			Lap	Time of day	Time		Total time[/b]
1	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		2	13:06:48	43.456		43.456 
1	1	Michael Schumache	Ferrari			12	13:19:27	25.973		25.973 
1	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		15	13:23:08	24.562		24.562 
1	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			15	13:23:30	27.734		27.734 
1	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		16	13:24:40	24.961		24.961 
1	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	16	13:25:20	26.530		26.530 
1	20	Patrick Friesacher	Minardi-Cosworth	17	13:27:09	26.293		26.293 
1	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		18	13:27:27	28.150		28.150 
1	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		20	13:30:38	24.473		24.473 
1	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		21	13:31:06	28.190		28.190 
1	8	Nick Heidfeld		Williams-BMW		21	13:31:07	28.363		28.363 
1	15	Christian Klien		Red Bull Racing		21	13:31:27	27.447		27.447 
2	4	Takuma Sato		BAR-Honda		22	13:32:39	30:51.763	31:16.724 
1	19	Narain Karthikeyan	Jordan-Toyota		22	13:33:17	24.467		24.467 
1	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			23	13:33:32	27.504		27.504 
1	5	Fernando Alonso		Renault			24	13:34:21	30.026		30.026 
1	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	24	13:34:27	28.238		28.238 
1	6	Giancarlo Fisichella	Renault			25	13:35:34	27.234		27.234 
1	10	Juan Pablo Montoya	McLaren-Mercedes	25	13:35:39	27.691		27.691 
2	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		27	13:39:42	27.330		1:10.786 
1	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		28	13:40:09	26.295		26.295 
1	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			31	13:44:11	26.340		26.340 
2	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	32	13:46:54	26.785		53.315 
2	3	Jenson Button		BAR-Honda		34	13:47:31	25.510		50.072 
2	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			34	13:47:37	25.279		51.252 
2	20	Patrick Friesacher	Minardi-Cosworth	35	13:51:43	26.468		52.761 
2	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		36	13:51:57	24.527		49.000 
2	17	Ralf Schumacher		Toyota			45	14:02:16	25.928		53.662 
2	2	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			47	14:04:59	27.291		53.631 
2	9	Kimi Räikkönen		McLaren-Mercedes	48	14:05:10	28.805		57.043 
2	14	David Coulthard		Red Bull Racing		47	14:05:13	25.866		54.016 
3	18	Tiago Monteiro		Jordan-Toyota		46	14:05:27	25.602		1:14.602 
2	15	Christian Klien		Red Bull Racing		47	14:05:31	26.383		53.830 
3	1	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			48	14:05:38	23.405		1:14.657 
3	11	Jacques Villeneuve	Sauber-Petronas		47	14:05:53	24.406		1:35.192 
3	21	Christijan Albers	Minardi-Cosworth	46	14:05:58	27.083		1:20.398 
2	16	Jarno Trulli		Toyota			48	14:05:58	24.726		52.230 
2	12	Felipe Massa		Sauber-Petronas		48	14:06:09	25.701		53.891 
2	7	Mark Webber		Williams-BMW		48	14:06:09	23.996		50.291 
2	10	Juan Pablo Montoya	McLaren-Mercedes	49	14:07:25	24.732		52.423

rpstewart · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:44

Flibster, you still needing a glamourous assistant for next week?

Vertigo · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:45

With regards to Montoya's removal from the race, I got the impression that the rules explicitly state that this is the punishment for ignoring a pit lane red light.

If this is the case then unless the light was broken (highly unlikely or Ron Dennis would have protested it immediately and kept Montoya out) what other course of action was there to take?

Richard T · 12 Jun 2005 at 20:45

rpstewart said:
Flibster, you still needing a glamourous assistant for next week?

lol!

IPBA · 12 Jun 2005 at 21:17

Flibster I admire the job you do here but I do not like the way you show some level of hatered towards Ferrari or Shumi

I personally like ferrari and like to see them win but to call Schumacher a dangerous driver and continue to give stick like you do every race weekend is a bit pathetic.

Does anybody remember the days when Senna ran into prost at the first corner of the last race to secure the championship and vice versa.

Remeber when everyone used to label Eddie Irvine as unsafe and also don't forget Massa who in his early F1 years was a bit of a lunatic.

Every driver has his good & bad points but to single out one driver and continue to badger him is sad.

SKILL · 12 Jun 2005 at 21:19

I think montoya's punishment was a bit ahrsh, but if thats whats in the rulebook then so be it (not read it so i dunno if it is or not)

As for it being dangerous, hardly, you've got a stream of cars at nowhere near their limit, and it's not like his burst of acceleration put him into the car ahead, bit rash and silly maybe, dangerous no.

Schumacher and Barrichello are lucky imo, if both renaults and even Button had completed the lap i would imagine they would've been ahead, but hey, fair play to 'em

Well done to kimi, had the measure of MS at the end, could've been faster earlier on but it played out well and only 22 points behind now, hope he gets the championship

Over Clocker · 12 Jun 2005 at 21:26

IPBA said:
Flibster I admire the job you do here but I do not like the way you show some level of hatered towards Ferrari or Shumi

I personally like ferrari and like to see them win but to call Schumacher a dangerous driver and continue to give stick like you do every race weekend is a bit pathetic.

Does anybody remember the days when Senna ran into prost at the first corner of the last race to secure the championship and vice versa.

Remeber when everyone used to label Eddie Irvine as unsafe and also don't forget Massa who in his early F1 years was a bit of a lunatic.

Every driver has his good & bad points but to single out one driver and continue to badger him is sad.

Thing is Michael Schumacher is arrogant and has been known to do some VERY stupid things just to get his win, including running into people, running people off the track etc

Difference with the examples you give, unlike Senna etc, M Schum is a current driver who continues to do these things.

Mal

SDK^ · 12 Jun 2005 at 22:26

Flibster said:
As for Montoya - yes he broke the rules - it wasn't dangerous *I can't actually see why that rule is there tbh*

Just a thought, but what would have happend had he pitted and got out before the safety car made it the exit of the pitlane.

He's be a lap ahead of everyone

Type_R · 12 Jun 2005 at 22:28

Over Clocker said:
Thing is Michael Schumacher is arrogant and has been known to do some VERY stupid things just to get his win, including running into people, running people off the track etc

Difference with the examples you give, unlike Senna etc, M Schum is a current driver who continues to do these things.

Mal

The funny thing is Montoya does exactly the same, gets disqualified for not sticking to the rules, yet somehow he is an amazing driver and deserves better :eek:

Fire 1 · 12 Jun 2005 at 22:28

SDK^ said:
Just a thought, but what would have happend had he pitted and got out before the safety car made it the exit of the pitlane.

It doesn't matter, the safety car was on the pit straight, the light at the end of the pit lane goes red until all cars behind the safety car have passed.

SDK^ · 12 Jun 2005 at 22:33

Fire 1 said:
It doesn't matter, the safety car was on the pit straight, the light at the end of the pit lane goes red until all cars behind the safety car have passed.

Yup
hence my response to Flibster about the the rule being required - keep up

Fire 1 · 12 Jun 2005 at 22:41

SDK^ said:
Yup
hence my response to Flibster about the the rule being required - keep up

It is not the exit of the pit lane that matters. Its the entrance - Keep up