2008 Belgian GP - Race 13/18

JUMPURS · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:43

Leeum said:
I was just going to point that out myself. The camera angle in the video is a bit misleading - I'm willing to bet they're practically tyre to tyre at the other side!

Dup said:

Not as close as you may think, plenty of room to brake and still make the bend without touching kimi.

And iirc this is before the rain really started.

olv · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:46

The whole reason he caught kimi is because it was wet and kimi isn't as fast as Hamilton in the wet.

plus he has already been forced onto the curb, braking at that point would have been tricky at best.

Emlyn_Dewar · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:48

Watching that Youtube video of the incident onboard, does Hamilton lift at all?

JUMPURS · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:50

Emlyn_Dewar said:
Watching that Youtube video of the incident onboard, does Hamilton lift at all?

According to McLaren he 'lifted' according to people on here he may just have accelerated at 80%. God knows how they come up with that figure, but they do.

LH done the same thing a magney cours, he outbroke himself into the corner.

Cavallino · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:51

Emlyn_Dewar said:
Watching that Youtube video of the incident onboard, does Hamilton lift at all?

This is my argument too. It seems he didnt lift. The fact that perhaps he didnt get as good traction out of the chicane perhaps...

Dunno dunno dunno...

mmj_uk · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:51

JUMPURS said:
Not as close as you may think, plenty of room to brake and still make the bend without touching kimi.

And iirc this is before the rain really started.

brake with tyres on a wet rumble strip? pretty risky if you ask me.

Coolasmoo · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:52

JUMPURS said:
According to McLaren he 'lifted' according to people on here he may just have accelerated at 80%. God knows how they come up with that figure, but they do.

LH done the same thing a magney cours, he outbroke himself into the corner.

kimi is clearly in front after the Chicane incident, just how far back did you want LH to be ?

Kitchster_uk · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:52

JUMPURS said:
Not as close as you may think, plenty of room to brake and still make the bend without touching kimi.

And iirc this is before the rain really started.

You do realise it's not just as simple as pressing the brake pedal I presume. Do you know what would have happened if LH had pressed the brake pedal any harder, he would have lost the back end and then spun the car. It was wet out there and therefore even less grip than normal.

realscot · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:53

Yeah i'm not a hamilton fan but i reckon that was a little harsh, even though i reckon that did give him a little advantage. Still he was going to get past kimi regardless.
If they were going to punish him couldnt they have just given him like a 5 place drop on the grid for the next race.. that seem like a more acceptable punnishment, and impacts much less on the media/fans etc.
I guess you could argue that kimi may not have crashed if hamilton didnt get by him when he did but that too much if and but really... I agree that the stewards have shot themselves in the foot on that one... Prepare for Jackie Steward calling them inexperienced idiots again...

olv · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:53

Surely outbraking yourself is running out of room to brake into the corner, yet according do you he had loads of opportunity to apply the brakes and turn in after kimi. Which one is it?

Cavallino · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:54

JUMPURS said:
According to McLaren he 'lifted' according to people on here he may just have accelerated at 80%. God knows how they come up with that figure, but they do.

LH done the same thing a magney cours, he outbroke himself into the corner.

Lifted off means take his foot off the pedal.

I.e. the telemtry should show the throttle blip down to the 0 level... even for an instant to register the lift off...
But ofcourse theyre saying that he did lift as soon as he exited the chicane.. so LH should be good...

but we need to see the graph

JUMPURS · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:54

Kitchster_uk said:
You do realise it's not just as simple as pressing the brake pedal I presume. Do you know what would have happened if LH had pressed the brake pedal any harder, he would have lost the back end and then spun the car. It was wet out there and therefore even less grip than normal.

The position he was in, i would be surprised if he was still braking.

So are you saying he gained an advantage by cutting the corner, because if he tried to make his maneuver stick, he would have lost it??

philjohn · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:55

JUMPURS said:
But the FIA say it was cos be cut the chicane with no need, that video seems to back it up.

How do people who are against the decision after the race feel about TV evidence being used in football?

Agreed, didn't see their wheels interlocked at the front so he could have braked harder and gone round properly - but that's looking at it a few times, not making a split second decision in the heat of the moment as Hamilton had to.

JUMPURS · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:56

Cavallino said:
Lifted off means take his foot off the pedal.

I.e. the telemtry should show the throttle blip down to the 0 level... even for an instant to register the lift off...
But ofcourse theyre saying that he did lift as soon as he exited the chicane.. so LH should be good...

but we need to see the graph

He never exited the chicane though as he cut it.

I am interested to see if their telemetary does she him lifting, or if all they have is Lewis went over the start finish line 6km/h slower than Kimi.
But if he lifted to 0 for an instant, the revs would not climb as steady as they do. There sounds like no brake in it.

JUMPURS · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:57

philjohn said:
Agreed, didn't see their wheels interlocked at the front so he could have braked harder and gone round properly - but that's looking at it a few times, not making a split second decision in the heat of the moment as Hamilton had to.

But should the stewards not use the evidence they have?/

How many times have we heard about TV evidence being needed in football to look after big decisions, yet some people want the split second decision in F1 now??

Cavallino · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:58

JUMPURS said:
He never exited the chicane though as he cut it.

I am interested to see if their telemetary does she him lifting, or if all they have is Lewis went over the start finish line 6km/h slower than Kimi.
But if he lifted to 0 for an instant, the revs would not climb as steady as they do. There sounds like no brake in it.

I knew you would say that

Exited/Cut whatever

My intention was to say that when he left that part of the track

NathanE · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:58

Hmm something I have just noticed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqlEg19NK0

Watch this video several times. You will notice that actually at no point is LH slipstreaming KR.

What ACTUALLY happens is that LH lifts to let KR back in front by the same amount that he was before the disputed corner. Then KR seems to come across LH's path and effectively they exchange lines going into Turn 1. Then LH out brakes KR and that is that.

It seems the key point of gaining an advantage from "slipstreaming" was actually just fabricated!

JUMPURS · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:59

olv said:
Surely outbraking yourself is running out of room to brake into the corner, yet according do you he had loads of opportunity to apply the brakes and turn in after kimi. Which one is it?

He outbroke himself taking him slightly wide, when he was surprised that Kimi kept his normal racing line.

I don't think the rules state that Kimi needed to leave a cars width on the track, do they?? I don't know, but i would be shocked if they did.

JUMPURS · 7 Sep 2008 at 20:59

NathanE said:
Hmm something I have just noticed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpqlEg19NK0

Watch this video several times. You will notice that actually at no point is LH slipstreaming KR.

What ACTUALLY happens is that LH lifts to let KR back in front by the same amount that he was before the disputed corner. Then KR seems to come across LH's path and effectively they exchange lines going into Turn 1. Then LH out brakes KR and that is that.

It seems the key point of gaining an advantage from "slipstreaming" was actually just fabricated!

But the FIA do not cite that as a problem, the FIA say he didn't need to cut the corner, which he didn't. People where speculating the slip streaming before any info had came out.

knip · 7 Sep 2008 at 21:00

I cannot believe that people are making excuses for this despicable decision.
Lewis let Kimi back past! It was later on that he overtook him, and it was not Lewis's fault that Kimi binned it into the wall!

*Shakes head in disbelief*

The bottom line is people, that this decision was very very wrong, and nothing anybody says excuses what the stewards have done today.

Why even bother having a race if theyre going to just change it after.
:confused: