Poll: 2008 Brazilian GP - Race 18/18
- Thread starter rpstewart
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Ive taken advantage of the half price sky HD
purely to get BBC HD. Cant wait for F1 in HD next year
Goodluck.
F1 isnt even filmed in HD, let alone broadcast anywhere.
In a few years time maybe.
Soldato
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GOODBYE JAMES ALLEN, YOU WONT BE MISSED!!!
W00T!
W00T!
I've noticed that the British press seem to be clinging to the story that Michael Schumacher said in an interview, that Hamilton is likely to be the next guy to break his record.
Now, Ive seen this interview and this isnt what he said. What he said was that anybody "could" break his record. This includes Hamilton, Massa or any other driver from the current crop of F1 drivers. Or, it might be another driver, who we havent yet seen, who will break MS's record. From what I understood, at no stage did MS explicitly single out Hamilton as the driver most likely to break his record. In fact, he seemed to put Massa and Hamilton on the same level.
The British press are hyping up Hamilton to ridiculous levels. Based on this year's peformance, he is slightly ahead of Massa in terms of performance, but is behind Alonso and Kubica. He certainly isnt on MS's level...yet.
The GP sessions havent yet began, but I would put money on Massa being superquick, as he has been in 2006/7.
Now, Ive seen this interview and this isnt what he said. What he said was that anybody "could" break his record. This includes Hamilton, Massa or any other driver from the current crop of F1 drivers. Or, it might be another driver, who we havent yet seen, who will break MS's record. From what I understood, at no stage did MS explicitly single out Hamilton as the driver most likely to break his record. In fact, he seemed to put Massa and Hamilton on the same level.
The British press are hyping up Hamilton to ridiculous levels. Based on this year's peformance, he is slightly ahead of Massa in terms of performance, but is behind Alonso and Kubica. He certainly isnt on MS's level...yet.
The GP sessions havent yet began, but I would put money on Massa being superquick, as he has been in 2006/7.
The forum is not "ruined" by squabbling/discussions/arguments/debates. If you dont want to read it, then I suggest you unsubscribe from the thread as soon as the race ends. Unless of course somebody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read every post in the thread.
Just because you dont like the after-race debate, doesnt mean that others who post/contribute, dont enjoy the debate.
If rpstewart doesnt want to start the GP threads, then someone else will. Its a shame, but not a big deal. I did like the format that he used though, so I think we should continue it in 2009.
You obviously didnt watch the last race - He was calm from lights out to flag, with hardly a wheel wrong (not to mention numerous other races in the last two seasons
Bit sillly imo (principal is ok) as some people dont like posting at all during the race, why get distracted by typing on a keyboard rather than actually watching (esp as BBC is taking over with no adverts)
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What's interesting is Kimi's 10 fastest laps of the 17 races completed so far in 08. Generally he's been off form but he is the quickest guy out there.
Gotta hand it to LH for consistency + he's made the sport more interesting. Good to see some proper racing out there. Personally I'm not a fan of his but nobody can take away the fact he's a seriously good driver.
Still, I can't help but feel for Massa. Had the pit stop not gone so terribly awry back in Singapore he's be leading the WDC now heading into Brazil.
The forum is not "ruined" by squabbling/discussions/arguments/debates. If you dont want to read it, then I suggest you unsubscribe from the thread as soon as the race ends. Unless of course somebody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read every post in the thread.
Just because you dont like the after-race debate, doesnt mean that others who post/contribute, dont enjoy the debate.
If rpstewart doesnt want to start the GP threads, then someone else will. Its a shame, but not a big deal. I did like the format that he used though, so I think we should continue it in 2009.
Why I dont like OcUK F1 threads all summed up in one post.
I would love some post race discussion, but thats not what we get here.
Going to drop this now for fear of dragging the thread down before the race has begun. Need to have the 'everything repeated 10 times at once live post commentary' of the race itself.
I agree the GB press are hyping him up but you cant say point blank LH is behind Alonso (who was at the back of the grid in 2001 &2 during his first two years in F1) without seeing what Lewis could have done in the same car Alonso had at the time
Im not saying he is definitely streets ahead, but its not as cut and dried as you suggest either
Kubica is even harder to judge, without doubt he is incredibly impressive, but not coming from a leading team there is a lot less pressure on him also (let alone not being a British driver, I have no idea what the Polish press are like - but I cant see them being quite so ......pressurised either)
I agree with where you are coming from but at the end of the day those ten laps (even strung together in one race) count for nowt at all, and looking at it another way, even if they counted for 10 poles from quali - no extra points .....and really at the end of the day 95% of supporters in general dont even really care about pole as after the lights go out , even that means nothing!!
Yes he has had his fair (or unfair) share of mechanical problems, but Kimi has been a real let down this season for a defending champion. no gaurentee who ever is defending in 09 will be any better/more successful - but they are sure (I hope) to put up a bigger fight
Are you forgetting the 7 points Massa has dubiously gained (in comparison to LH) in two races.
6 point difference in spa - and one gained point for massa for the dubious bordais incident in japan
Without those, Hamilton would have already won.....
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The way I'm judging the Alonso VS Hamilton debate:
Alonso:
1. The only driver who can truly claim to have beaten the Ferrari/MS combo, when they were firing on all cylinders [Hill/JV beat MS when he first moved to Ferrari and trying to get their car upto scratch. Hakkinnen beat MS when MS broke his leg and his car wasn't upto scratch. Alonso beat MS 2 year in a row - in 2005, Ferrari was pretty bad due to the tyre change, but in 2006, Ferrari had no excuses].
2. After Alonso left Renault (who won the title for 2yrs in a row), in 2007, Renault were litterally, nowhere. It was like they were a completely different team. Alonso made Renault look faster than they really were.
3. When Alonso moved to McLaren, he was immediately competitive and managed to almost win the title, in his debut season with them. Due to in-fighting, his mindset was all wrong and he eventually lost the title, what I believe, due to Hamilton being a naughty boy in Hungary and getting Alonso demoted on the qualilfying grid. Had this not happened and Hamilton followed orders, Alonso would've won the title.
4. When Alonso moved to McLaren, he claimed he immediately brought extra speed along with him to the team. This claim is credible. When you compare how McLaren performed in 2006 and 2008, it seemed that their car was slower than the Ferrari. In 2007, however, McLaren seemed to be the overall best car over the course of the full season. Alonso will claim credit for this. I wouldnt argue, as he obviously brought extra speed to Renault.
5. Alonso returns to Renault - a team that were now quite poor, after a season without Alonso (with no wins in 2007). In 2008, he initially tries and tries, while getting nowhere. Then as soon as they provide him with a car that can almost compete with the leading 2 cars, he wins 2 races in a row. He also outperforms his team mate, by a significant margin.
To summarise, Alonso has won more races, world titles, points, etc than any other driver currently in F1.
Now lets move onto Hamilton:
1. He has arguably the best debut season in F1, of anyone. He finishes 1 point away from the WDC and matches Alonso. Impressive.
2. In 2008, without Alonso, McLaren now seem to be slightly slower than the Ferrari, over the full course of the season. As a result Hamilton is under pressure and is making mistakes. His most glaring mistake is when he crashed into a stationary Kimi, in Canada, in the pitlane.
3. Hamilton has had some pretty ordinary peformances littered during the season, namely, when he hasnt qualified at the front (or, like in France, was forced to start in the middle of the grid).
4. After 17 races, Hamilton is leading the title race, but at times, still seems vulnerable. He certainly doesnt seem bullet proof. If Alonso was driving for McLaren, with a 7 pt advantage, I would put money on him winning the title. Hamilton doesnt inspire the same level of confidence that Alonso does.
Based on the above, I have to say that Alonso is ahead of Hamilton, though I still contend that this will change in the next year or so.
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MS stated that the reason for Kimi's poor performance is that the new car parts havent been working for him. But my question would be, "If the new car parts havent been working, why was he able to put up so many fast laps?"
My belief is that Kimi's approach of just turning up and using flat speed to beat Massa isnt working anymore as Massa has raised his game. Kimi doesnt work as hard as Massa and it is now showing.
Hamilton and consistency dont really go together. In 2007, Hamilton was consistent, but in 2008, he has had some "ordinary" performances.
Did you guys see the news article where Schumi said Kimi needs to, basically, be a bit more social to up his game? Schumi hinted that Kimi really is a bit of a "show up and drive" type of character with no interest as soon as he leaves the track.
Can't they be attributed to pressure? Something which Kubica and Alonso currently don't have on their shoulders!
I'm sure Kubica is a brilliant driver but I bet you £20 that as soon as he gets a car/team that are challenging for the title then errors will begin to show...
He is certainly not faultless. He spun off at Silverstone this year. And at Fuji last year he rammed Hamilton into a spin with a Massa-esque overtaking move... People often say that a real driver's ability is judged from their wet weather driving
Also... when all of his title hopes depended on it at China he screwed up his car's setup... whereas his teammate Heidfeld who has traditionally had much more severe car setup problems this year put in a good qually and race.They're all good drivers with plus and negative points all round. That's why they're competing in the pedigree of circuit racing.
Media BS aside, whoever the wins the championship does just that, and they usually do so because they've earnt it. You can't put it all down in the car becasue these things are volatile and temporamental at the best of times. You have to be commited to keep the tires and brakes at optimum and then give it some more to separate you from the rest. It's a team effort to get the cars and drivers where they are each race weekend and if that winning formula takes the title at the end of the year then you can't take that away from them.
Media BS aside, whoever the wins the championship does just that, and they usually do so because they've earnt it. You can't put it all down in the car becasue these things are volatile and temporamental at the best of times. You have to be commited to keep the tires and brakes at optimum and then give it some more to separate you from the rest. It's a team effort to get the cars and drivers where they are each race weekend and if that winning formula takes the title at the end of the year then you can't take that away from them.
Its so incredible how blindly pro Alonso you are
most of those pro Alonso points - while kinda valid - are being used to balance against any plus points for LH, ie effectively minus points for him, yet its ridiculous as LH never had any chance at proving them right or wrong so they are completely immaterial in this discussion
You also have no actual knowledge apart from an angry/publicity seeking /publicly embarassed driver's quote to prove how much LH brought to the 07 McLaren, and just because the 08 car is slower (although its also made dramatic improvement in some areas/tracks) this could have been present whether Alonso was there or not - another unqualifiable point (ie maybe its just that Ferrari improved even more, therefore widening the gap, with two vastly more experienced drivers thats more to the point), the difference MIGHT have been less with Alonso but we will never know (the friction caused with Alonso still being there could have accounted for more detrimental performance)
edit - you can only beat whats infront of you - and yes LH did that (incl himself) three times in two seasons, one not helped by a mechanical fault, and he also managed to outdrive the reigning world champion in numerous races in his rookie season, can anyone else say that?
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Its all good banter, 95% speculation and 5% fact. Its still good though.
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