2009 Ashes Series - England vs. Australia **Spoilers**
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Soldato
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Would like to see old Sibo back in the team.
From the sounds of it he took 5 wickets for his county at Taunton which apparently isn't a good place to bowl. That and the fact that he knows Headingley from his Yorkshire days he's surely a more likely candidate to play than Harmison?Is it a case of if Flintoff fit, then Broad out and Sibo/Harmison in. Or if Flintoff out then Broad in and either Trott or one of Sibo/Harmison in?
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Broad -> Sibo
Flintoff -> Trott (if not fit)
Trott seems a sound pick, he's scored a shedload of runs for the bears, I think he's actually been outscoring Bell when they've both been in the same team.
I'd like to see Broad dropped to be honest. Just hasn't been performing well at all. Not sure on Harmys fitness but if Fred isn't fit and Broad dropped then there could be a few changes. I think they will opt for Sido in the place of Broad though and wait on Freddies fitness until the last minute.
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Broad just needs to go back and figure out test match bowling.
He spends far too much time on variation and so on which is all well and good in ODI/twenty20, but in test match cricket it's pointless and it explains his poor strike rate. I think he should model himself on McGrath - focus on bowling the same ball over and over in the channel. If the wicket isn't doing a lot he won't give away a lot of runs, and when the ball swings/seams he'll have extra bounce and cause the batsman no end of problems, especially if he's bowling at late 80s/early 90s.
Added with his batting which is looking excellent he would become a very, very useful all-rounder. He's definitely got the potential to be as good, if not better than flintoff at least on paper. In fact I'd put good money on him finishing up with both a better batting and bowling average than Flintoff at the end of his test career (although i don't think he'll turn games like Flintoff does).
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Broad will never be as good as a McGrath or Flintoff... He has nothing about him, all he is is a good cricketer, he has no personality that will affect a game or batsman, he needs to grow a pair and become more aggressive then he might be able to turn a game
I'm pretty sure that I've heard some of the commentators saying that Broad has been told to get a bit more aggro, but that he started to get more unpleasant than aggro, and was then told to tone it down a bit.
I agree with what you say, though. He might well become a great asset to England, possibly as an all-rounder. I just don't sense he has the right character or presence to be a game turner like Fred.
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Yeh, you can't learn something like that, people are just born with that character and presence
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That wouldn't surprise me.
I think he will be. It wouldn't surprise me if he ends up with a batting average slightly better than Flintoff's and perhaps even a better bowling average. But in no way do I see him as a game turner. Flintoff's been used as a shock bowler so his bowling average will reflect that whereas someone like McGrath just bowled and bowled and just stifled batsmen for runs.
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Do you remember what Flintoff was like when he came into the England side?
Remember, Broad has just turned 23. He is capable of bowling above 90mph and he looks capable of scoring a test century too. So far, his career averages are after 20 games:
Batting: 30.33 including 4 50's
Bowling: 40.21 including 1 5fer
And he's played so far:
Australia (Home)
India (Away)
NZ
SA (Home)
Sri Lanka (Home)
WI
Have a look at Flintoff at the same age, 9 tests:
Batting: 16.64, no 50s
Bowling: 55.00, no 50s
2 of those tests were against Zimbabwe
Now by 20 tests that had improved a bit:
Batting: 20.74
Bowling: 46.50
But it wasn't until 2004 - the summer before the infamous 2005 Ashes, that his figures came up to the level Broad's are at now, in his 36th test, just before the series with West Indies, when his batting average reached 29.5 and bowling reached 40.5. He then played out of his skin vs. Windies and he was finally recognised as a world class allrounder.
My point being, Broad has years ahead of him and and I honestly think looking at the two in similar stages of their career there's no reason that Broad can't achieve even more than Flintoff has been able to.
Agreed, but look at what the likes of McGrath can do when conditions favour them. If Broad improves his accuracy he'll be a serious force to be reckoned with.
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Course. I just don't see Broad becoming the same kind of bowler as Flintoff. If Broad works on putting the ball in the same place over and over again (no pun intended!) he could be quite good. I don't think he'll be used as an opening bowler but would be quite good as a change bowler coming on when the batsmen are a bit tired, hopefully, of fending off Anderson and Onions perhaps, then lose concentration a bit and Broad comes in with his accuracy and cleans up.
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Course. I just don't see Broad becoming the same kind of bowler as Flintoff. If Broad works on putting the ball in the same place over and over again (no pun intended!) he could be quite good. I don't think he'll be used as an opening bowler but would be quite good as a change bowler coming on when the batsmen are a bit tired, hopefully, of fending off Anderson and Onions perhaps, then lose concentration a bit and Broad comes in with his accuracy and cleans up.
Possibly, I think they should just make their minds up and do whatever - but sooner rather than later!
Also, I didn't realise Tim Bresnan was only 24. He could be handy in the future too.
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Agreed. The sooner the ECB or Notts decide what kind of bowler he'd do best as the better.
Really?! He took a few wickets didn't he in his debut test? 3 wickets Cricinfo says at about 32. But Onions took most of the headlines for his 5 fer on debut. Onions has 18 Test wickets at 23.50 and is only 26. Hope he can keep up his form and play a big part in English Test cricket for a few years.
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Yeah Onions is a great prospect too - looks the kind of bowler who should last a few years too. I'm surprised I haven't heard any comparisons to Simon Jones yet - both have a skiddier kind of action to the rest of the England bowlers and bowl wicket-> wicket at a similar pace.
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I reckon that Anderson/Onions should be included in England Test teams, not squads, if fit. Then perhaps Swann as our first choice spinner with Monty as a reserve in case two spinners is needed for a certain pitch or Swann is injured.
Hopefully Onions will get picked regularly for England. He hasn't really disappointed so far and is having a decent Ashes. 8 wickets at 27 so England's second highest wicket taker and the best bowling average of either side.
Good points, and its quite impressive to look at his figures (ooer missus!) and then realise he's only 23. I personally think they should work on his accuracy, and develop him into a straight bowler (wicket to wicket), because with his speed he could start to rip through batting orders. He's never going to really swing the ball, so straight line bowling is his best bet. No reason (as long as he is coached properly) he couldnt become one of our pre-eminent attacking bowlers.
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So the latest news is that Flintoff doesn't look like he'll make it. No great surprise there, but now the question is who to play instead.
Bowling option wise, first two names for me are Anderson and Onions. Swann has been a bit hit and miss this series and it's questionable whether he'll be that effective at Headingley. Broad has been ineffective and his place seems under threat, but if both Broad and Flintoff are out and replaced by bowlers, our batting will be seriously fragile.
Sidebottom seems a good option given that Headingley is traditionally a seam/swing track. He bowls a consistent line and length, and before his various injuries he was England's no. 1 bowler 2 years ago. Being a left-armer he will add another angle, but the worry will be that Anderson, Onions, Sidebottom and Swann will have little to offer if there is no swing, which has been England's problem all series and will become a bigger one without Flintoff.
Harmison is of course the other option with his pace and bounce, but it's questionable how effective he could be at Headingley. He's been in great form this season though and he will at least add a different dimension.
I think if Flintoff goes we'll have to bring in Trott as an extra batsman. For me, Broad has to go because he isn't strong enough in a 4 man bowling attack and the team may end up carrying him. I'd bring in Sidebottom for Broad, which leaves a bit of a one dimensional attack, but I don't think Harmison is going to be any better option right now.
Bowling option wise, first two names for me are Anderson and Onions. Swann has been a bit hit and miss this series and it's questionable whether he'll be that effective at Headingley. Broad has been ineffective and his place seems under threat, but if both Broad and Flintoff are out and replaced by bowlers, our batting will be seriously fragile.
Sidebottom seems a good option given that Headingley is traditionally a seam/swing track. He bowls a consistent line and length, and before his various injuries he was England's no. 1 bowler 2 years ago. Being a left-armer he will add another angle, but the worry will be that Anderson, Onions, Sidebottom and Swann will have little to offer if there is no swing, which has been England's problem all series and will become a bigger one without Flintoff.
Harmison is of course the other option with his pace and bounce, but it's questionable how effective he could be at Headingley. He's been in great form this season though and he will at least add a different dimension.
I think if Flintoff goes we'll have to bring in Trott as an extra batsman. For me, Broad has to go because he isn't strong enough in a 4 man bowling attack and the team may end up carrying him. I'd bring in Sidebottom for Broad, which leaves a bit of a one dimensional attack, but I don't think Harmison is going to be any better option right now.
Ouch if Flintoff goes then thats a pretty big loss for England...much bigger than losing KP imho.
Harmison has been having a great county season...taking loads of wickets and is desperate to play the Aussies but i think the occasion gets to him and he doesnt perform. Broad i think needs to be dropped, hes been having a rough time of it lately...much like Mitchell Johnson for the Aussies.
Looks like Lee will be back so thats an added boost for the Aussies and Haddin might play as well...i guess his broken finger isnt as bad as it was. But Hauritz might be dropped as Aussies might go for an all out pace attack...perhaps Clark will make his way back into the side.
Also Aussies need to win the Ashes or retain them to hold onto their No1 test ranking according to what cricinfo is saying.
Harmison has been having a great county season...taking loads of wickets and is desperate to play the Aussies but i think the occasion gets to him and he doesnt perform. Broad i think needs to be dropped, hes been having a rough time of it lately...much like Mitchell Johnson for the Aussies.
Looks like Lee will be back so thats an added boost for the Aussies and Haddin might play as well...i guess his broken finger isnt as bad as it was. But Hauritz might be dropped as Aussies might go for an all out pace attack...perhaps Clark will make his way back into the side.
Also Aussies need to win the Ashes or retain them to hold onto their No1 test ranking according to what cricinfo is saying.
It's a tricky one, if Flintoff is doubtful and from what I've read about the wicket at Headingley, it would probably make sense to let him have a much bigger rest so he can come back for the final Oval test fully rested - especially if the Aussies happen to win this one so we end up 1-1.
I agree with bringing in a batsman to replace Fred. I'm a fan of Broad, but I don't see him taking 4-5 wickets over the two innings, although his contribution with the bat has been useful in making an England loss 'out of the question'. Sidebottom isn't a bad bat, is on form it seems and should provide something a bit different too as well as good control.
Aussie team - who knows
I don't think Lee will make it into the side, maybe Clark for Siddle. I expect Haddin will come back into the team too - that said, it's not batting which the Aussies have a problem with now it's their bowling.
I agree with bringing in a batsman to replace Fred. I'm a fan of Broad, but I don't see him taking 4-5 wickets over the two innings, although his contribution with the bat has been useful in making an England loss 'out of the question'. Sidebottom isn't a bad bat, is on form it seems and should provide something a bit different too as well as good control.
Aussie team - who knows
I don't think Lee will make it into the side, maybe Clark for Siddle. I expect Haddin will come back into the team too - that said, it's not batting which the Aussies have a problem with now it's their bowling.