2016 : A Pivotal Year For AMD, Nvidia, PC Gaming And VR

[LambChop]

Name a game i can't play with decent support on a single gpu atm. Gameworks does hamper me a little but once amd fiddle about with the black box gimpworks the performance aint bad. If this was a problem the 390 would not be recommended and faster than the gtx970 overall. Anyhow its all about budget for me and i still feel a 290 pcs+ for 170 after selling the games was a far better purchase over a gtx970 as in todays games it still holds up well.

It still sits well with me that i bought a card that will do well in to the future. If i had bought a gtx970 i would be thinking its going to get gimped and it is a gimped card with decent performance. That's my way of thinking though

No-one's perfect

 

[Ian Evey]

Apple is for idiots or so i am told and android is for people that know what they are doing.

That depends on if the people that told you that are idiots themselves.

 

[tommybhoy]

Name a game i can't play with decent support on a single gpu atm. Gameworks does hamper me a little but once amd fiddle about with the black box gimpworks the performance aint bad. If this was a problem the 390 would not be recommended and faster than the gtx970 overall. Anyhow its all about budget for me and i still feel a 290 pcs+ for 170 after selling the games was a far better purchase over a gtx970 as in todays games it still holds up well.

It still sits well with me that i bought a card that will do well in to the future. If i had bought a gtx970 i would be thinking its going to get gimped and it is a gimped card with decent performance. That's my way of thinking though

I couldn't tell you if any titles weren't working on single gpu on any vendor really without looking, you are prepared to wait for GW's on AMD fair play.


I had mgpu and patience ran thin to the point that enough was enough, anyone who's used mgpu will atest-lacking profiles takes frustration to a whole different place.

Four months wait for a mgpu GW's profile on my main game, regardless the blame it's not on, the buck stops@AMD's feet and was rewarded with a walk on the wild side due to the constant rate of GW's titles.


Again the 290 is fantastic and the price you paid is untouchable, but performance won't save them imo, until AMD pour cash into more driver devs to combat the black box quicker, and start competing again pushing tie ins like they did with never settle, they'll continue losing customers.

It's not gpu performance that's harming AMD, it's themselves- just off the top of my head:

Ramgate, how do you keep a hold of (some very angry)ex 970 owners?

Impress them, you certainly don't blow the scraps commissioning a vid/paid articles laughing, and you certainly don't(by this point there was multiple GW's titles with glitches) let them wait 4 months for a driver, when Nvidia's rolling out wave after wave with 'fixes'.

I'd hazard a guess, they ran back.

V

How do you combat the wait for AMD's new TR TFX optimisation on Nvidia?

You buy them out and guarantee full access pre release because AMD don't black box their code, genius really.

 

[TheRealDeal]

I couldn't tell you if any titles weren't working on single gpu on any vendor really without looking, you are prepared to wait for GW's on AMD fair play.


I had mgpu and patience ran thin to the point that enough was enough, anyone who's used mgpu will atest-lacking profiles takes frustration to a whole different place.

Four months wait for a mgpu GW's profile on my main game, regardless the blame it's not on, the buck stops@AMD's feet and was rewarded with a walk on the wild side due to the constant rate of GW's titles.


Again the 290 is fantastic and the price you paid is untouchable, but performance won't save them imo, until AMD pour cash into more driver devs to combat the black box quicker, and start competing again pushing tie ins like they did with never settle, they'll continue losing customers.

It's not gpu performance that's harming AMD, it's themselves- just off the top of my head:

Ramgate, how do you keep a hold of (some very angry)ex 970 owners?

Impress them, you certainly don't blow the scraps commissioning a vid/paid articles laughing, and you certainly don't(by this point there was multiple GW's titles with glitches) let them wait 4 months for a driver, when Nvidia's rolling out wave after wave with 'fixes'.

I'd hazard a guess, they ran back.

V

How do you combat the wait for AMD's new TR TFX optimisation on Nvidia?

You buy them out and guarantee full access pre release because AMD don't black box their code, genius really.

I can't disagree as AMD do shoot themselves in the foot as i get the feeling you would still be with them if they gave you the mgpu support that you deserved. Single gpu on the other hand has been pretty spot on from AMD. Crimson seems to have borked this a little though when they should be doing better as Nvidia are off there game a little.

I do respect your reasons though but feel that the gtx970 is over hyped far to much considering the 390 which is basically a 290 with extra ram came out a year prior and is still a good match when power usage is not concerned.

 

[tommybhoy]

Probably would have stayed, but it was an eye opener and can see why people get on the train..

Hype is the Nvidia effect, they are the undisputed masters in this game, AMD needs to identify and emulate it, until then, it's business as usual.

 

[bru]

Just got to laugh at those saying, I don't want proprietary technology and then buying a 3-5 hundred pound video card. Either camp these things are packed full of proprietary tech, even the drivers are proprietary, it is ridiculous. Crossfire, Eyefinity, Freesync, GCN, LiquidVR, True audio, virtual super resolution and so on and so on.

 

[Howling]

Just got to laugh at those saying, I don't want proprietary technology and then buying a 3-5 hundred pound video card. Either camp these things are packed full of proprietary tech, even the drivers are proprietary, it is ridiculous. Crossfire, Eyefinity, Freesync, GCN, LiquidVR, True audio, virtual super resolution and so on and so on.

You know full well what we're discussing with regards to that. No need to be obtuse about it.

 

[TheRealDeal]

Probably would have stayed, but it was an eye opener and can see why people get on the train..

Hype is the Nvidia effect, they are the undisputed masters in this game, AMD needs to identify and emulate it, until then, it's business as usual.

Yea at the end of the day it's all about buying what you want or need at the time. Nvidia atm are destroying AMD at marketing.

 

[andybird123]

You know full well what we're discussing with regards to that. No need to be obtuse about it.

He's not being obtuse, its one of the big elephants in the room that AMD like to wave the "open" banner when it suits them and yet some things they tout as being open never quite make it that far, and others they have the option on but choose not to seemingly so they can continue to point fingers.

If AMD were genuinely behind open software then their Linux drivers wouldn't have completely sucked for so long.

 

[Insanties_birth]

I don't ever let politics get in the way of my enjoyment. I ran the Fury X with the Titan X and fully intended on keeping the fastest and not much more I can say to that really. In fact, why do people feel the need to buy AMD because they are the good guys etc? That has always baffled me and you should really buy what suits your needs, regardless of anything. AMD/Nvidia defending is weird lol Sure, purchase justification is always going to be there but people who hope the opposition screw up is kinda sad.

It's not baffling at all, if you buy for the short term and don't mind watching the industry turn into something you dislike then you can buy whichever is the fastest but if you want to try and guide it the way you want then you buy (within reason) the choice you feel is best. For me I bought a Nvidia gpu in my laptop because I felt AMD was quite behind in the mobile gpu department and since you can't upgrade it was a more pivotal decision. When it comes to gaming PC's though I feel there isn't really all that much difference between AMD's and Nvidia's offerings and while AMD being the good guy / small guy is a consideration it's not the only reason to take there stuff. You shouldn't put yourself way out for a decision like that but some lie to themselves about how big the differences are.

For me it's simple, I end up better off with AMD anyway by getting a cheaper 4k freesynch monitor that Nvidia gsynch monitors are too overpriced to deliver at a reasonable cost performance. My overall experience would be better with AMD for the price and the decision to support AMD is still a factor so would have weighed in but it's not like Nvidia fans need to think it's the only factor and it's some moral high ground posturing. It's just a factor still for me, as seen with the fact I went for the 980m laptop though, it's not the only thing to consider but just helps. I'd rather support the industry, support the underdog and support competition (which is better for everyone). To be fair if Nvidia were perfect at performance (recent drivers have proven otherwise) they were massively ahead (gpu's are a bit ahead but overall with the monitor I still get better experience for cheaper on AMD with freesynch) and they wasn't having some annoying experiences themselves (970 vram issues / proprietary tech / overpricing) then sure I'd just buy them with less worry. When we objectively look at each side I don't really see such a huge gap (except for maybe MGPU users but that's not really something I've tried myself and Nvidia isn't doing as great as they used to either). I'm just not the kind of person who likes to commit to being a gump really, never been a big fraudster (downloading movies etc.), never been the kind of guy who likes to scalp people (buy products then flog them fr more when stock is low on ebay etc). Guess it's just a moral compass thing and a lot of people don't really use it much in every scenario.

 

[Howling]

He's not being obtuse, its one of the big elephants in the room that AMD like to wave the "open" banner when it suits them and yet some things they tout as being open never quite make it that far, and others they have the option on but choose not to seemingly so they can continue to point fingers.

If AMD were genuinely behind open software then their Linux drivers wouldn't have completely sucked for so long.

We're clearly discussing their use within games - ie affects everybody who plays the game. FreeSync/G-Sync doesn't hinder those without, as with Crossfire/SLi, as with everything else mentioned. The only one mentioned in the thread that directly affects those with other hardware, is Gameworks - and that's what's being discussed as far as I know? But I can briefly discuss the others if you wish.

Do AMD drivers affect nVidian gaming experiences?
No.
Do nVidia drivers affect AMD gaming experiences?
No.
Does FreeSync affect nVidian gaming experiences?
No.
Does G-Sync affect AMD gaming experiences?
No.
Does Crossfire affect nVidian gaming experiences?
No.
Does SLi affect AMD gaming experiences?
No.


Seeing a pattern yet? Hence the comment was obtuse - it bares no relevance.

 

[Insanties_birth]

He's not being obtuse, its one of the big elephants in the room that AMD like to wave the "open" banner when it suits them and yet some things they tout as being open never quite make it that far, and others they have the option on but choose not to seemingly so they can continue to point fingers.

If AMD were genuinely behind open software then their Linux drivers wouldn't have completely sucked for so long.

Companies by nature can't be open all the time for fear of having no competitive advantage, it's useless and ends up giving the companies who are greedy and overly competitive the chance to just take the advantage and never share while still taking things. Still they do a better job of being open than some of the other companies and have engaged in more open practice still. Ignoring that would be ignoring any common sense and just rambling that they have to be entirely open or they can't ever claim being open is better. It'd be fine if they had the chance but to be fair they are far behind Nvidia in market share and if they chose to share all tech Nvidia would just steal what they want, share what they can't beat and do better than AMD where they can. At least they are calling to make it open but it's not possible for them to do everything by themselves while Nvidia rely on closing the other side.

 

[andybird123]

We're clearly discussing their use within games - ie affects everybody who plays the game. FreeSync/G-Sync doesn't hinder those without, as with Crossfire/SLi, as with everything else mentioned. The only one mentioned in the thread that directly affects those with other hardware, is Gameworks - and that's what's being discussed as far as I know? But I can briefly discuss the others if you wish.

Do AMD drivers affect nVidian gaming experiences?
No.
Do nVidia drivers affect AMD gaming experiences?
No.
Does FreeSync affect nVidian gaming experiences?
No.
Does G-Sync affect AMD gaming experiences?
No.
Does Crossfire affect nVidian gaming experiences?
No.
Does SLi affect AMD gaming experiences?
No.


Seeing a pattern yet? Hence the comment was obtuse - it bares no relevance.

I wasn't even talking about any of those things, I was talking specifically about things AMD have said will be "open", or that forum go-ers have taken to be "open source", when they aren't, but I really don't want to rehash old arguments so I'll just leave it there

 

[bru]

You know full well what we're discussing with regards to that. No need to be obtuse about it.

Hence the comment was obtuse - it bares no relevance.

Relevance to what, I didn't quote anyone, I wasn't necessarily adding to your discussion, it was a comment that I thought might have sparked an interesting debate in this thread.

I did make one mistake though, I should have listed some NVidia proprietary technologies too, because we all know that they have a load in their GPU's and software packages as well.

 

[Gregster]

It's not baffling at all, if you buy for the short term and don't mind watching the industry turn into something you dislike then you can buy whichever is the fastest but if you want to try and guide it the way you want then you buy (within reason) the choice you feel is best. For me I bought a Nvidia gpu in my laptop because I felt AMD was quite behind in the mobile gpu department and since you can't upgrade it was a more pivotal decision. When it comes to gaming PC's though I feel there isn't really all that much difference between AMD's and Nvidia's offerings and while AMD being the good guy / small guy is a consideration it's not the only reason to take there stuff. You shouldn't put yourself way out for a decision like that but some lie to themselves about how big the differences are.

For me it's simple, I end up better off with AMD anyway by getting a cheaper 4k freesynch monitor that Nvidia gsynch monitors are too overpriced to deliver at a reasonable cost performance. My overall experience would be better with AMD for the price and the decision to support AMD is still a factor so would have weighed in but it's not like Nvidia fans need to think it's the only factor and it's some moral high ground posturing. It's just a factor still for me, as seen with the fact I went for the 980m laptop though, it's not the only thing to consider but just helps. I'd rather support the industry, support the underdog and support competition (which is better for everyone). To be fair if Nvidia were perfect at performance (recent drivers have proven otherwise) they were massively ahead (gpu's are a bit ahead but overall with the monitor I still get better experience for cheaper on AMD with freesynch) and they wasn't having some annoying experiences themselves (970 vram issues / proprietary tech / overpricing) then sure I'd just buy them with less worry. When we objectively look at each side I don't really see such a huge gap (except for maybe MGPU users but that's not really something I've tried myself and Nvidia isn't doing as great as they used to either). I'm just not the kind of person who likes to commit to being a gump really, never been a big fraudster (downloading movies etc.), never been the kind of guy who likes to scalp people (buy products then flog them fr more when stock is low on ebay etc). Guess it's just a moral compass thing and a lot of people don't really use it much in every scenario.

I don't like proprietary but I will not cut my nose off to spite my face and it is that simple. G-Sync came out, I read reviews and was like "I have to try it", I got the ROG Swift and was totally blown away. I originally was running 3 Titans back then as well but in the interim, I ran a 290X and it ran very well and was a good price and I ran a 970 and it also ran very well and was a good price (no VRAM issues that you mention) and if I was a 1080P gamer, I wouldn't have been able to tell what was in the computer when playing BF4, Tomb Raider, SoM and a few others but firing up Batman, Borderlands 2, Alice Madness returns I could tell instantly because there was effects missing. Not sure if you have seen me say in the past but I like PhysX and GameWorks and it does make a pleasing visual difference to me. However, there is some out there who don't care for those effects, which I respect and part of me wishes that everyone could get to see these effects and being biased, have some positive talk about them.

You can't beat talking about a new release with others and what you like/don't like and what you think of this and that but a section of the market and friends of mine are included in that are unable to see these effects I like. This is why I don't like proprietary but that doesn't mean it is a deal breaker. I was jealous of Mantle and could see that it benefited AMD users and if I was running 3 290Xs (remembering I was running 3 Titans back then), I would have had a nice boost in frames in Mantle enabled games (not that it was needed but hey, who doesn't want more frames), so my point being that part of me was sad on missing out on this tech. Move on a few months and I run a single Titan X as opposed to SLI because I had had enough of SLI grief (stuttering in some games even on G-Sync/SLI profiles not happening). And because I had done a ton of OT at work and didn't want to waste it down the pub, I bought a Fury X and loved it. I loved the AIO and its size was sweet and if it was faster than the Titan X at 1440P, it would have been the keeper. I was all prepared to lose out on effects and G-Sync to just go with the fastest card but like I said, the TX was considerably faster, so that was the keeper.

Another note worth mentioning is buying AMD or Nvidia and to those who like to put me in one camp, I have bought far more AMD GPUs in the last couple of years than I have done Nvidia GPUs in my lifetime... So those that insist this and that about me should really get to know me before placing me this or that way

 

[tommybhoy]

Another note worth mentioning is buying AMD or Nvidia and to those who like to put me in one camp, I have bought far more AMD GPUs in the last couple of years than I have done Nvidia GPUs in my lifetime... So those that insist this and that about me should really get to know me before placing me this or that way

I'm saying this not trying to pick a fight/bait/take the ****, but don't you wonder why many don't believe you?

Speaking for myself here, during the good times greg, on our off forum conversations we had many, many a great chat(honestly I regret it's gone due to all round stubbornness), but some of your AMD opinions cemented my opinion on your character and no doubt vice versa.

Think about it, we are portrayed by what we post.

 

[Gregster]

If it works for me and does what I need, it goes in my machine. Nvidia are pretty much on the ball with 99% of things as well and AMD tend to kick their heels at times.

A small example was seeing a thread yesterday about getting MSI AB onto the guys recordings and that wasn't working back when I was on a 290X and it appears it still isn't. Recording AB is an integral part of my Youtube channel, so if that is missing, that would be a big blow for me. I have a dedicated capture card that does a decent job but 1080P 30fps is just not good enough for today's video's.

So do I favour a brand? Of course but that doesn't mean I am a fanboy or tied to a specific brand. And I do love a good debate that doesn't require sniping and cheap pot shots and will not bother reading those posts when I see them but that doesn't mean I don't have a sense of humor and I love a good thread that gets down to the nitty gritty of both companies. You get to see some pro's and con's and even I can pick up a thing or two that I didn't know and so long as people remain civil, I am open to solid debates.

 

[andybird123]

So StarVR are putting off a commercial release for 2 years in favour of opening "StarCades" where people can try their VR in controlled environments.

Cant help but think that their major selling point (wider fov and higher resolution) will be in other headsets as well by the time they release anything.

 

[Gregster]

Yer, I liked the way StarVR were going for the bigger FOV and can see it being a good alternative, if not a better alternative but the 2 year delay won't help.

 

[tommybhoy]

snip

Don't think you understand what I was saying.

Personally don't see the point in self proclaiming what an idividual is/isn't , it's pointless imo as people tend to make their own mind up and not what a person wants you to think they are.