2022 mini-budget discussion

[dowie]

I do not understand why GDP growth is being touted as the single important metric of a strong economy. You know who has the highest global GDP growth per year? Libya.

I'm not sure that it is though do you not see the flaw in your comparison there, Libya is a rather poor country.

It's like saying you don't understand why some high earner is focused on getting a good double-digit pay rise and pointing out that apprentices earning £4 frequently get even higher growth in pay of like 100%+.

 

[chrismscotland]

The bit that IR35 makes it impossible to hire the right people is utter balls. What you mean is long term contractors (ie employees in all but name) aren’t willing to take the tax hit the rest of us have to suffer for working largely identical jobs.

Personally I think there should be some kind of time limit if your "outside IR35" - the old 2 year rule seemed fine to me.
But its totally unfair that a contractor should be taking all the risk on being sick, paying their own holidays, employers National Insurance, etc but getting zero security or benefits for that.

 

[Destination]

If you earn 150k+ you are paying 6x+ tax for someone who is paying 25k. If you are on 25k, half of your income is 0% tax.

Therefore, you need the 150k+ lot to stick around because if they don't, you won't have a 20% tax rate anymore, you will have a 30% income tax rate, like we had in the early 1980s.

There's only so much you can do with tax for people earning under 30k, the objective needs to be to get them to become net contributors to the system, which happens around 48k, that is the conundrum to solve, through investment, not necessarily cutting taxes at that level and not investing in people at that level.

Ah yeah as when the 45% rate was introduced we saw a massive drop off in those 625 thousand people who earned it.........
Stick around, bar the chaps who own the newspapers who feed you this ****, the rest of them do stick around.
They've nowhere else to go, as their income depends upon being here, and if it doesn't then we should change that.
US style system where if you want to r4eside you pay tax here, remove non-dom type status, and foreign money earning completely.
Make old Moggy bring his millions home.

 

[Quartz]

And not everybody on £27,500 a year or less can live in Aberdeen now can they

Aberdeen is crying out for employers.

 

[Quartz]

Meanwhile in the U.S President Biden comes out with.

And he's right.

 

[Hagar]

And he's right.

Be interesting to see if anything comes of it.

 

[Destination]

Is there some provision for landlords/second homeowners? The tories have generally tightened things for them over the years.

I know what you are referring to, but generally the squeezing happened mostly to those attempting to expand portfolio, or people with a single buy to let, who had not bought it as a part of a limited company. George Osboure sqeezed them considerably if they happened to be 40% taxpayers.
The changes in stamp duty might encourage the LTD owners to increase their portfolios. Buying several small homes to let, and starving the buyer market further.
Remains to be seen.
It won't help the small investor, or those with a house as part of their retirement plan.

 

[Doobedoo]

Be interesting to see if anything comes of it.

I wouldn’t hold my breath on any politician delivering on what they say.

Point is though you have one leader of a very powerful and prosperous nation saying one thing and another of a once powerful and prosperous nation many, many years ago saying the complete opposite. Who would bet on Truss over Biden?

 

[200sols]

Be interesting to see if anything comes of it.

Will Biden be introducing a bankers bonus cap then?

 

[Mrwong]

The bit that IR35 makes it impossible to hire the right people is utter balls. What you mean is long term contractors (ie employees in all but name) aren’t willing to take the tax hit the rest of us have to suffer for working largely identical jobs.

Outside ir35 keep majority of your money in the company, use it to by a home.

 

[Besty]

Ah yeah as when the 45% rate was introduced we saw a massive drop off in those 625 thousand people who earned it.........
Stick around, bar the chaps who own the newspapers who feed you this ****, the rest of them do stick around.
They've nowhere else to go, as their income depends upon being here, and if it doesn't then we should change that.

For sure there is a cabal of people chained to their desks in the U.K, mostly lawyers, front-office hedge fund types and other senior people managers, like managing director level peeps in FTSE 100 that simply need to turn up to the office.

But for those within that 625k PAYE group there is an awful lot of people like me who just worked hard and don't really manage anyone. The work can be done 100% remotely and its a shift that started in 2015, the pandemic simply accelerated it.

Previously, you needed to invest 350-1M euros into property to get a golden visa from Portugal and Greece, now all you need is a proof of income, a remote role and a laptop. 28% PAYE flat tax rate for Portugal, 0% PAYE for 5 years in Greece, Spain will be next in January.

The conditions where 250,000+ people commuted into the City Of London and Docklands to work high-paid technology roles chained to a desk 4/5 days a week are gone and they aint coming back.

 

[Uther]

Aberdeen is crying out for employers.

Do you mean employees?

 

[Pudney]

Outside ir35 keep majority of your money in the company, use it to by a home.

Use a company to buy a home? Terrible idea.

 

[GordyR]

For sure there is a cabal of people chained to their desks in the U.K, mostly lawyers, front-office hedge fund types and other senior people managers, like managing director level peeps in FTSE 100 that simply need to turn up to the office.

But for those within that 625k PAYE group there is an awful lot of people like me who just worked hard and don't really manage anyone. The work can be done 100% remotely and its a shift that started in 2015, the pandemic simply accelerated it.

Previously, you needed to invest 350-1M euros into property to get a golden visa from Portugal and Greece, now all you need is a proof of income, a remote role and a laptop. 28% PAYE flat tax rate for Portugal, 0% PAYE for 5 years in Greece, Spain will be next in January.

The conditions where 250,000+ people commuted into the City Of London and Docklands to work high-paid technology roles chained to a desk 4/5 days a week are gone and they aint coming back.

I’m in precisely that group and I think that this budget is absolutely catastrophic. The £12k+ I’m saving in tax is pouring away with the value of the pound and it’s only going to get worse as these inflationary policies start to feed in to the economy, requiring ever more drastic action from the BoE to kerb.

I do not want to be privately wealthy in a country that is publicly impoverished.

 

[mid_gen]

Ah the perennial myth that taxing high earners more would make them all flee the country. Always funny hearing that trotted out!

There are many places round the globe they could bugger off to with massively lower tax takes. If tax were going to make them clear off, they would have done already.

Also, where are all the hordes of wealthy tax exiles from Germany and Scandinavian states, fleeing the onerous tax systems of their home country?

 

[Quartz]

Do you mean employees?

Those too. We need something to take over from oil.

 

[StriderX]

Ah the perennial myth that taxing high earners more would make them all flee the country. Always funny hearing that trotted out!

There are many places round the globe they could bugger off to with massively lower tax takes. If tax were going to make them clear off, they would have done already.

Also, where are all the hordes of wealthy tax exiles from Germany and Scandinavian states, fleeing the onerous tax systems of their home country?

I mean did many leave when the 45% and the somewhat more awkward personal allowance subtraction was instituted? I think being paid a decent wage is far more important to those people and for many fields it's simply impossible to beat the US.

 

[Lord-Jaffa]

You are a truely disgusting person.

Haha OK Tony, your horrific post history is there for all to see.

 

[D.P.]

Ah the perennial myth that taxing high earners more would make them all flee the country. Always funny hearing that trotted out!

There are many places round the globe they could bugger off to with massively lower tax takes. If tax were going to make them clear off, they would have done already.

Also, where are all the hordes of wealthy tax exiles from Germany and Scandinavian states, fleeing the onerous tax systems of their home country?

moreover, if it was ever a genuine concern then it is trivial to solve with a global tax based on passport, just like the US does.

The fact that most countries don't bother is because they know people on PAYE don't move for tax reasons .

 

[chroniclard]

Haha OK Tony, your horrific post history is there for all to see.

He's not wrong.