30/11 Strikes.

amigafan2003 said:
There we go with the "I'm screwed, everyone else should be as well" - reverse envy - it's awesome! Would it not be fairer to do something to ensure those in the private sector are treated better?
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No because most are unsustainable, im not saying public sector workers should be screwed im saying they need to accept some cuts and get on with it. They still have a fair pension at the end, if they dont like it opt out and pay into another scheme.

amigafan2003 said:
Are you confusing peer pressure with bullying? Do you fell bullied into going to the pub when all your friends state they are going and they call you boring if you say you want a quiet night in
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No, I am not confusing anything. Harrassing people is bullying.
 
It is funny though this conversation, Labour gets in to governance and the public sector employment spirals out of control (makes figures look good though). Then the business men (Tories\Liberals in this case) get into power and remove them all again to make it cost effective...its almost like a pattern forms.

Have you also noticed that UK PLC is doing very well considering the amount of debt etc. we have as a country...imagine what the markets would do if BALLS! was in charge...hehehe Has this got anythign to do with the actions that the current government have done? I think so, if you dont then i suggest you read a little more about how this works.

And while im at it...how about making the able bodied people on state benefits work for the state doing certain jobs, personally i would welcome that if i was on the dole. It would get me up in the morning and make me realise that i had something to offer society instead of thinking that society owes me something.

Also if able bodied people dont want to work for their benefits then give them the bare minimum, crap 1 room flat in a crap part of some city, food and clothing stamps and nothing else, or deport them to somewhere like the Congo and see how lucky they are.

You would need an independant body to evaluate who exactly is able to work though due to the abuse.

Surely this would help with job creation and the reduction in public sector wages. It would also give people aspirations to do better in life.

I just dont get it, I have just been reading some sob story about a women in Exeter who has nothing wrong with her but doesnt work. She is winging that she is poor, yet underneath this article there is another one stating that there are over 2500 jobs in Exeter area alone.....my brain cannot understand this, it seems illogical.

Also Karl Marx is an interesting man to quote, i recently read his biography and it was fascinating. I reckon he must be the most misquoted and misunderstood person i know about!

But then what do I know, I am not a victim!
 
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groen said:
I am glad that you find the truth so amusing.

Of course it is a totalitarian socialist/fascist state. What else is it ?
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The UK is a constitutional monarchy with a representative democracy legislature, a regulated market economy and a welfare state...
 
elmarko1234 said:
Indeed,

I'd prefer somebody to vote against me after doing some reading than simply voting for whoever somebody they know does.

I really don't think people who vote in line with family deserve a vote, if you can't be bothered to educate yourself on politics then don't vote - the voting population is already small enough without fools (from both Labour & Tory) voting without even knowing what they are voting for.
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I was discussing this with my bird the other day over dinner. She's never voted, isn't registered to do so but is intending to vote. When I asked her who'd she vote for she said "probably Labour, because that's what we've [her family] have always done". I face palmed and went back to eatting my expensive, non-working class dinner.
 
topshot said:
No because most are unsustainable, im not saying public sector workers should be screwed im saying they need to accept some cuts and get on with it. They still have a fair pension at the end, if they dont like it opt out and pay into another scheme.
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But then that doesn't fit in with the Unions' political wishes.
 
jgreen726 said:
She is winging that she is poor, yet underneath this article there is another one stating that there are over 2500 jobs in Exeter area alone.....my brain cannot understand this, it seems illogical.
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Not really on topic but this figure includes part time work i guess? the trouble is a lot of part time work is not high enough paid to live off and if you do work part time they lose the benefits so end up worse off.
 
Dolph said:
Still waiting to an answer as to why affordability (a matter of economics) should be open to negotiation?
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But I didn't say that did I?

I think I made the point that if the object of the change is because of the affordability of the pension schemes, then why aren't the extra funds that will be made available by the change ring fenced for pension use only?

That's a point for negotiation, which the government are refusing to negotiate on.
 
groen said:
Did you say that with a straight face Dolph ? :D

Oh right because you can tick a box every five years this means that it is not a totalitarian socialist/fascist state.
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It isn't that, it's more fundamental. I hold a position that we need stronger protections from the state and so on. We are, however, definitely not a totalitarian socialist fascist state...
 
groen said:
@elmarko1234

At the moment we have totalitarian socialist/fascist state in the uk.
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No.

In certain aspects we have had an increase in authoritarianism, but in others we have gained liberty.

This is not a socialist nation, we have sold off all of our public assets (energy/water/trains) - we are almost completely capitalist.

Wiki education below.

Fascism is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.Fascists seek to rejuvenate their nation based on commitment to the national community as an organic entity, in which individuals are bound together in national identity by supra-personal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood.

To achieve this, fascists purge forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration. Fascists advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through indoctrination, physical education, discipline and family policy (such as eugenics).

That state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the fascist movement, the government and other state institutions. Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition.

From this definition you can quite clearly see we are not Fascist, or living under totalitarian rule - for a start we have media from both the left & right wing spouting bias rubbish.
 
amigafan2003 said:
But I didn't say that did I?

I think I made the point that if the object of the change is because of the affordability of the pension schemes, then why aren't the extra funds that will be made available by the change ring fenced for pension use only?

That's a point for negotiation, which the government are refusing to negotiate on.
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That is what the unions are arguing though.

I actually agree with you on the ringfencing aspect.
 
groen said:
Did you say that with a straight face Dolph ? :D

Oh right because you can tick a box every five years this means that it is not a totalitarian socialist/fascist state.
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If i could be bothered i would post an 'your argument is invalid' picture.

Surely if you want to attack what Dolph has stated you would be better off stating that we are ruled by Oligarchs? (Not that i disagree with Dolph i might add).

Fascism ( /ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a radical authoritarian nationalist political ideology.[1][2] Fascists seek to rejuvenate their nation based on commitment to the national community as an organic entity, in which individuals are bound together in national identity by suprapersonal connections of ancestry, culture, and blood.[3] To achieve this, fascists purge forces, ideas, people, and systems deemed to be the cause of decadence and degeneration.[3] Fascists advocate the creation of a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through indoctrination, physical education, discipline and family policy (such as eugenics).[4][5] That state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the fascist movement, the government and other state institutions.[6] Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition......is this England is it?
 
Dolph said:
If your contributions are going up in any significant way, you aren't in the low income bracket, given that the contribution increase is nothing until £15,000 and capped at 1.5% for those earning under £21k.

By low income do you mean average uk wage?
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I come out at just under £18k, on a 48 hour week. I'm well aware there are people lower paid than me, but the pension was already a bit tight for me, which is why I made the decision. Instead the ~£80 will be going into a savings account.

No biggie, I am well aware that cuts need to be made, and I'd much rather it be pensions than job cuts. I just went a different way with my savings for my future.
 
Just found out a kid from my sons school was knocked down and killed yesterday. Twelve years old. He would have been in school at the time it happened but for the strike. :(
 
Dolph said:
That is what the unions are arguing though.

I actually agree with you on the ringfencing aspect.
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Is it what they are arguing for is it just what they post on their websites? (Not that I agree with that tactic btw).
 
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