30/11 Strikes.

[Cas];20695644 said:
I come out at just under £18k, on a 48 hour week. I'm well aware there are people lower paid than me, but the pension was already a bit tight for me, which is why I made the decision. Instead the ~£80 will be going into a savings account.
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So instead of paying £96 net into a secure pension, you are putting £80 into a savings account with no guaranteed return or annuity rate?

Each to their own, but I think that's daft.
 
I'd be happy to pay more tax to ensure that the entire UK population had a reasonable pension provision (not that I get paid enough to cover it on my own).

The problem really is the entire "pension" structure is flawed to begin with, pyramid schemes usually are - what we should do is put some time & effort into researching the possibility of introducing a moderate living allowance (better than state pension) & scrap all benefits/tax credits/tax free allowances.

The massive reduction in the cost of maintaining this system would go a long way to pay for the changes, it would also be virtually impossible to fraud.

The other bonus is that it actually removes the poverty trap entirely (as people will always be earning more if they are working).
 
My 2p

I'm in 2 minds about this whole thing:

I'm a Civil Servant (Central not Local Government, more on this later) and of course I'm annoyed that my pension is changing for the worse. I signed up to a job knowing that the pay was never going to be great with the expectation that other benefits, the pension being one of them, would offset this.

However I know what's going on in the country and what a mess it's in. I know that cuts have to be made and the only area the Government has any real control over is the people it employs and the services it runs.


I would like to clarify a few things that annoy me though:

1. As said I work for Central Government not Local. While both are "public services", Local government are not Civil Servants. Not saying either is any better than the other, just different.

We get tarred with the same brush - More public servants than ever, huge pay etc. - whereas the truth is quite different. Currently while the public servant numbers has increased, the Civil Service is currently running at it's lowest number of staff since WW2.


2. Pay. To say that Public Servants get paid a huge amount more than their equilevant jobs in the private sector is disingenuous at best. Yes, some do, others don't. Again this seems to lead on from the difference between Central and Local governments. From my experience Local does seem to pay better than Central.

But that's not the only problem: A lot of low skilled, low pay work has generally been outsourced to the private sector. Where I work we have Stor-men, cooks, cleaners etc all outsourced. Leaving the "heart" of our business (all professionals - engineers, project managers and the like) as Civil servants, obviously raising the average pay for our business.

And one to thank the Unions for (cheers guys :rolleyes: ): Because we have all been placed into banded pay grades with collective bargaining on pay, I have no way of raising my pay by working harder or going above and beyond (not to say I don't work to the best of my abalities). I'm a Data comms engineer with, if I do say so myself, quite a good level of experience and expertise. I'm also in the same pay band as general admin staff and one "diary clerk" that I know of. My skillset is more in demand and marketable than them, yet because of where I sit in the management chain I earn the same.


3. Civil Service Pensions. The CSPS has already been changed several times since I've been in service and lets be honest, it hasn't been changed for the benefit of its members. Even without the current changes I'm in a worse position than I was pension wise than when I joined 12 years ago.



And to all those calling us all "lazy, good for nothing jobsworths": All private sector workers are two-faced, money-grubbing, **** everyone else, I'm all right Jack, son of an unmarried mother ;)

You get both types of people in both lines of work and it's unfair to tarr either side.

Something to consider: Most of us here are doing the best we can with what we have. With every change of Government, or even minister, the rules we have to follow change. We have no say in this even when we know these changes are going to make things worse. No one ever asks those on the front line how to improve things.


/rant



For the record. I didn't strike - too much work to do. And judging by my branch here, only about 10 out of around 1000 people working on this site did.
 
I always find it amusing when the MP's talk about public sector pensions - but forget they are working for the public, paid by taxpayers, have been claiming for porn & duck ponds over the last 10 years & get fantastic pensions.

If anyone is going to moan it should be the private sector workers (personally I'd prefer other private sector workers/along with myself to try to improve out situation as opposed to racing to the bottom), not MP's with golden pension plans.
 
Uther said:
Just found out a kid from my sons school was knocked down and killed yesterday. Twelve years old. He would have been in school at the time it happened but for the strike. :(
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Both fallacy of the single cause and post hoc ergo prompter hoc.
 
groen said:
Did not see this post.

The conflict of interest is when you have public sector workers that will obviously vote for the party that increases their pay and increases the size of the state. Welfare recipients that will always vote for more welfare and better deals.

That would be like giving private sector workers, a vote in the management of their company. Of course they would vote in the best manager (from their perspective, not necessarily the best in the interest of the company) that gives them the best deal. Which of course would bankrupt the business.
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Except that that is a load of nonsence. My employer does not dictate my political leanings. In fact I would say that most people I work with (Civil Servants) are quite right leaning, most of whom voted Conservative at the last GE.

Anecdotal, I know. But no worse than your statement
 
oulton said:
Why should wealthy people like yourself begrudge those poorer than themselves, i find it absolutely disgusting :mad:
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Why should the poor expect something for nothing?

5 years ago, I was earning about £15k a year, living in a two bed terraced house and driving a crappy old Corsa. Now I'm earning about £30k a year, living in a three bed semi and driving a considerably newer Focus. In another 5-10 years I intend to be earning about £50k, living in a 4 bed detached house and driving a German saloon.

How have I managed such incredible feats, I hear you cry? Well, I changed jobs into a better paid industry with more opportunities, studied really hard for a brutally difficult qualification, passed it and got promoted. I intend to continue on this trajectory.

If people want more stuff, they need to work harder for it and stop expecting the government to keep looking after them.
 
grumpysculler said:
So instead of paying £96 net into a secure pension, you are putting £80 into a savings account with no guaranteed return or annuity rate?

Each to their own, but I think that's daft.
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People have already answered this for me really. It's variable, I can add more or less, depending on how I'm doing financially that month. And it can be used in emergency if need be.
 
Stevio said:
And one to thank the Unions for (cheers guys :rolleyes: ): Because we have all been placed into banded pay grades with collective bargaining on pay, I have no way of raising my pay by working harder or going above and beyond (not to say I don't work to the best of my abalities). I'm a Data comms engineer with, if I do say so myself, quite a good level of experience and expertise. I'm also in the same pay band as general admin staff and one "diary clerk" that I know of. My skillset is more in demand and marketable than them, yet because of where I sit in the management chain I earn the same.
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Read your T&C's re: Special pay reviews. Still possible in collective bargaining - none of the unions business.

Quick extract from what I think yuor T&C's are:-

In Which Circumstances?

1. There are no particular circumstances that may qualify for a pay increase from a Special Pay Review. The following are typical:

(a) The individual has higher than average levels of skills/experience; their contribution to the business is high, their pay falls short of a reasonable level of reward in these circumstances, and the Pay Progression system has not and possibly may not benefit them.
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Vonhelmet said:
Why should the poor expect something for nothing?

5 years ago, I was earning about £15k a year, living in a two bed terraced house and driving a crappy old Corsa. Now I'm earning about £30k a year, living in a three bed semi and driving a considerably newer Focus. In another 5-10 years I intend to be earning about £50k, living in a 4 bed detached house and driving a German saloon.

How have I managed such incredible feats, I hear you cry? Well, I changed jobs into a better paid industry with more opportunities, studied really hard for a brutally difficult qualification, passed it and got promoted. I intend to continue on this trajectory.

If people want more stuff, they need to work harder for it and stop expecting the government to keep looking after them.
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Similar situation, went from 11k to 37k over 4/5 years - but it's worth noting that not everybody has any of the following.

1.Luck.
2.Skills/Natural aptitude.
3.Access to good education.
4.Good parental role models.
5.Ability to learn.
6.Fortune to avoid abuse/growing up with crack-heads as parents etc

Because of this I strongly support a generous state to ensure the less fortunate don't suffer, as I understand that not everybody was as fortunate as I was.
 
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