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Fire Wizard said:
Why would Intel need to drop the price of their Intel Core i7 920 processor? It faces absolutely no competition from AMD at this current point in time.
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Now this is where you completely misunderstand the whole thread. In performance? Perhaps. But in value for money it can't even touch anything AMD has at the moment.
 
Hello Fire Wizard! :)

A little late to the party but welcome none the less! :D (Your My Hero!)

Fire Wizard said:
Why would Intel need to drop the price of their Intel Core i7 920 processor? It faces absolutely no competition from AMD at this current point in time
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I disagree, I believe your comments are not in anyway based on fact and in everyway based on your personal perception . . .

I believe it faces a lot of competition if you would care to look a bit closer! :D

Fire Wizard said:
The problem with comparing the Intel Core i7 to the AMD Athlon 620 and simply saying the Intel Core i7 is over priced is you have magnified the issue, an issue which isn't really there
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Ah yes, a lot of people have been having problems with this one! :p

I reserve the right to decide for myself what is and what is not a high end system, there is not some universal law that dicates such thing and nobody can dictate these terms to me . . . having been working with PC hardware for 15 years I have a certain understanding of these things! :)

The two systems in my O.P are both quad core processors, both are DDR3 based, there are only three main differences between them

  1. One Chip has Hyper-Threading, One does not
  2. One system is Triple Channel DDR3 the other System is Dual-Channel DDR3
  3. One System is 100% more expensive, the other is 50% cheaper

I have posted several benchmarks and tried to demonstrate that in fact the Intel® Core™ i7 is being sold at too high a premium for what it offers, the worst possible use of this system is for your average gamer where the i7's peformance is equal to that of a much less expensive system when gaming at high res . . . It has been generally agreed by those that have partaken in this thread and that have indulged themselves in several benchmark viewings that "in Fact the Intel® Core™ i7 is not worth a 100% price premium"

Working on that consensus and taking the base cost of the AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 and giving it a *generous* 100% price premium that most us us have already agreed it doesn't deserve we arrive at this product price . . .

intelcorei7920d0price.jpg


This is a questionable 100% price markup, do you see a problem here? :)
 
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I would love to have payed less for my i7 920 but for me it still represented the best value/performance i could get. I do a lot of video editing, music production and dabble with 3d work and the sheer power of the i7 is perfect for my needs and makes tasks so quick. I could do the same on a amd 620 but i would probably only get half as much done while i waited for things to transcode, unpack or render. The pc also doubles up as my gaming rig and again it shines, some of those game results in the anandtech bench are under half what the i7 can achieve.

I have owned several amd systems and have great fondness of my 3700 sandy and dfi board, that was faster than anything intel had out at the time and overclocked so easily (was my first 3ghz oc) but right now the best option was the i7 over anything amd have out. Coupled with the fact i can also run it at 4.3ghz+ on air is simply stunning and puts a big grin on my bios tinkering face :D
 
JeffyB said:
"I would love to have payed less for my i7 920"
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Hey JeffyB,

I do realise this thread is causing a lot of confusion but I would like you to know that you are important to me, everyone who posts on these forums is important to me, I am in no way attacking you or anyone on these forums, I want the OcUK shop to make lots and lots of profit ££££ . . . I just want a better deal for everyone! :)

I'm sorry if this thread is causing any problems for people but simply put I believe the Intel® Corporation is overcharging us little people . . . we are the ones who control the price not Intel®, I am just trying to demonstate this although I am getting little support from my community :confused:
 
After reading a lot on this forum i decided against a i7 and went with my rig in sig needless to say glad i didn't get the i7 reasons are

saved a lot of money
performance in the games i play is superb
true 16x16 x fire MOBO
i just can't fault it at the minute, and to top it off i got a big smile on my face last night when i hit 4.2GHZ on air for a fritz and super pi run.

P:S Where can i buy AMD fanboi badges LOL:p
 
Big corporation in overpriced shocker? I think you can easily say most things are overpriced, i hope that amd have a truly competetive product with the next refresh and it will force intels prices down, until then intel can charge a premium for their flagship product.
 
bigjimmyauk said:
Where can i buy AMD fanboi badges LOL:p
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The Fan-Boy (fanboi) is dead (1993-2010), now there is *logically* only such a thing as Fan-Man or Fan-Man-Junior :p

JeffyB said:
Big corporation in overpriced shocker?
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Cmon lets do something about this :confused:

JeffyB said:
i hope that amd have a truly competetive product
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They do but you just can't see it! :)

It's brilliant! :eek:

JeffyB said:
until then intel can charge a premium for their flagship product.
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If you say they can . . . then they can . . . if you say they can't . . . then they cannot . . . the choice is yours! :cool:

Your a very important person JeffyB! :D
 
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If we as a group can come to an agreement on this then we can do something about it . . . it's as simple as that! :D

The problem here is we cannot come to an agreement . . . I am hoping a new thread can be made from this to discuss an intelligent way to redress the *balance* . . . please don't shoot me I am only the messenger! :eek:

Big.Wayne

Busting his gut for the past seven years for his community . . .
 
Big.Wayne said:
If we as a group can come to an agreement on this then we can do something about it . . . it's as simple as that! :D

The problem here is we cannot come to an agreement . . . I am hoping a new thread can be made from this to discuss an intelligent way to redress the *balance* . . . please don't shoot me I am only the messenger! :eek:

Big.Wayne

Busting his gut for the past seven years for his community . . .
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But you're not the only messenger. There's one group with one point of view and another with a different one. This plus the Internet means debate, but that's certainly not a bad thing. You can learn many things from what might seem like mindlessly shouting at somebody.

One side wants the best performance and damn the expense, wheras the other care about their wallet but they also care about their performance. Either is fine and i certainly know which side i'm on (that's yours, just to clarify).

The way i see it, the i7 920 is the best (well, best 'reasonably' priced) processor on the market at the minute. It's allowed to have a huge price tag, and people who want that sort of thing can have it. But nothing's forcing you to buy it, you can just go for the Athlon II X4 (or other) which is still a brilliant little chip that Intel don't have anything to compete with (and don't go throwing the i3 at me, it's in a completely different price bracket - if i asked you if you would rather have a Q6600 (essentially what the 620 is) or an i3 i know what you would say) and so Intel and AMD are at the minute targeting completely different sectors. When AMD get of their backside in their top of the range chips then it should heat up a little, like it did with the Athlon 64 but until then there's nothing wrong. No great 'problem' that we must group together to overcome (apart from money itself, but lets keep that one for another time aye?). Forgive me for saying but i think you've got a touch of perfectly normal paranoia :p
 
JeffyB said:
Big corporation in overpriced shocker? I think you can easily say most things are overpriced, i hope that amd have a truly competetive product with the next refresh and it will force intels prices down, until then intel can charge a premium for their flagship product.
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Yeah all this IS AMD's fault, if they had a decent line-up to compete with Intel then the prices would be much closer.

JeffyB said:
No badges will one of these do?
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=TY-000-AM&groupid=595&catid=652&subcat=
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OCUK only sell AMD caps. :eek:

Big.Wayne said:
Hello Fire Wizard! :)

  1. One Chip has Hyper-Threading, One does not.
  2. One system is Triple Channel DDR3 the other System is Dual-Channel DDR3.
  3. One System is 100% more expensive, the other is 50% cheaper.

    :)
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  1. 1. The more the better. :D
    2. i7 920 is both dual AND Triple Channel. (which means it can also use the same price RAM as AMD)
    3. i7 920 is actually 78.5% More expensive and the 620 is 46% cheaper. (i7 920 is 60% Better*)

*According to an average of scores obtained from This place
 
Big.Wayne said:
I disagree, I believe your comments are not in anyway based on fact and in everyway based on your personal perception . . .

I believe it faces a lot of competition if you would care to look a bit closer! :D
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In terms of raw performance, the Intel Core i7 920 performs better than the AMD Phenom II X4 965. (This is generalising a bit since the AMD Phenom II X4 965 is a very good contender against the Intel Core i7 920 in gaming. In the majority of other areas though, the Intel Core i7 920 is the faster processor) Have you got any evidence to suggest it isn't?

I have posted several benchmarks and tried to demonstrate that in fact the Intel® Core™ i7 is being sold at too high a premium for what it offers, the worst possible use of this system is for your average gamer where the i7's peformance is equal to that of a much less expensive system when gaming at high res. . .
Click to expand...

If the users workload only consists of surfing the web, writing documents and light gaming, then an Intel Core i7 920 system isn't going to have much advantage over a cheaper AMD / Intel system because there is no demand for it and in that sense, it is over priced. However, this doesn't make the actual product overpriced (weather it actually is or not, I will hold back my thoughts for now) it is simply the wrong product for that particular users needs and I certainly wouldn't suggest an Intel Core i7 920 based system to them in those sorts of cases.

It has been generally agreed by those that have partaken in this thread and that have indulged themselves in several benchmark viewings that "in Fact the Intel® Core™ i7 is not worth a 100% price premium"
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I still don't agree with your comparison method because I feel it doesn't give a true representation of weather or not an Intel Core i7 920 system is actually overpriced or not.

Superewza said:
Their entire range compared to the Intel i7, yes.
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If we refer to the comparison I did in my post here, the Intel Core i7 920 is more expensive. However, the fact that the Intel Core i7 920 is overall the better processor, it's perfectly understandable that it's going to be more expensive. A question that should then be asked should be along the lines off:

If you could utilise the power of an Intel Core i7 920 system, would it be worth the extra £120 over an AMD Phenom II X4 965 system?
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This would take the users workload out of the equation, which would appear to be making things slightly more complicated and we are also comparing two products in the most logical form. If you then feel a Intel Core i7 920 is over priced for the extra performance over an AMD Phenom II X4 965 system, then that's absolutely fine. You could also possibly compare an Intel Core i5 750 system to a Intel Core i7 920 system. If you also thought the Intel Core i7 920 system wasn't worth the extra cost over a Intel Core i5 750 system either, you could then compare both the AMD and Intel systems just mentioned with each other since the price and performance is very similar. However, at least there is now a base line as to why these specific systems were chosen and are much more meaningful comparisons.
 
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Dear Fire Wizard,

sorry for the delay in this reply, I have been busy with work and *other* activities, I would ask that you consider what I am saying and take as much time as you like to reply, your opinion is very important to me! :) . . . I have tried to choose my words in this reply as carefully as possible so as not to cause offence although I'm not sure the same can be said of everyone that has posted in this thread . . .

For your information and to set the tone for continued *On Topic* discussion know that I am a budding Epistemologist under the tutelage of the Teachings of Socrates . . . I welcome genuine debate and see these forums as a place where like-minded people can meet to discuss things *logically* . . . an ancient version of these forums may look like this . . . :D

schoolofathensocuk.jpg

"The School Of Athens - The School Of Overclockers"

Fire Wizard said:
Please don't respond to my post saying it is off-topic because it certainly isn't. I haven't directly answered your question below because I disagree with your comparison methods. You're trying to magnify your argument of an Intel Core i7 920 based system being overpriced.
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Well although I am fearful to say it but sadly your post is off-topic, I am just comparing two specific pieces of hardware that are freely available for sale the world over. . . I don't see a problem with comparing two specific computers of my own choosing and *logically* looking at performance figures and cost ££ . . . as far as this thread is concerned there are only two systems under scrutiny, these are:
  • INTEL® Core™ i7 920
  • AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620
I'm aware that you know about one of them but I gather you are not aware of the other? . . . both are *very* decent bits of kit and both *very* desirable to different people for different reasons . . . both processors mentioned above are being compared in the hope that any potential buyers can make an *informed* purchasing decision before spending more of their hard earned cash than is needed. I am not influenced by any marketing hokus-pokus, I do not recognise Perceived Price-Points, I do not recognise Perceived Low/Middle/High-end classifications I am simply taking two products of my own choosing and comparing them to each other . . . I only recognise Performance and I only recognise Actual Cost £££. . . The Core™ i7 920 was chosen simply as it is Perceived by many others as a *Flagship* for the INTEL® Corporation . . .

I do not see that I have broken any rules anywhere and I would kindly ask you for your assistance in this comparison of my choosing, hopefully the penny will drop soon! :)

Fire Wizard said:
The cost difference between the Intel Core i7 920 system and the [irrelevant chip to this thread] system is roughly £125
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As mentioned above *please* refrain from clouding the issue and stick to the two products in my O.P, I will not be drawn into a circular debate as I feel I have chosen two very desirable quad cores from different manufacturers . . . one is a costly INTEL® *Flagship* product while the other is a new and largely *Unknown* product from AMD® based on very modern technology and specifically designed for a single purpose . . . to bring Power To The People!

athloniix4powertothepeo.png



Fire Wizard said:
In terms of raw performance, the Intel Core i7 920 performs better than the [irrelevant chip to this thread] (This is generalising a bit since the [irrelevant chip to this thread] is a very good contender against the Intel Core i7 920 in gaming. In the majority of other areas though, the Intel Core i7 920 is the faster processor) Have you got any evidence to suggest it isn't?
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I would respectfully point out that even though your statement above address's hardware that is beyond the scope of this discussion in the end part you make a claim and then wrongfully attempt to place the burden of proof on me when in fact it lay with you . . . as you are the one making the claim . . .


Fire Wizard said:
an Intel Core i7 920 system doesn't seem quite as overpriced as in your comparison which I feel you may have deliberately done to make Intel look like the bad guys
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Nothing has been deliberately done, I simply asked people for their opinions? . . . I came across the comparison of these two specific systems by chance and after examining the performance differences between the two I was quite puzzled & shocked in equal measure . . . now may I respectfully point out that again your statement is a logical fallacy, specifically Argumentum ad hominem . . . my motives or intentions are entirely irrelevant to this discussion, my point stands, please attack the argument and not me
  • INTEL® Core™ i7 920
  • AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620
"What are you thought's about this? . . . do you think the Intel® Core™ i7 is worth a 100% price premium?"

Fire Wizard said:
In my opinion, you have given a lot of people the wrong idea in that an Intel Core i7 920 system is vastly over priced due to your comparison methods.
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I'm sorry you feel that way Fire Wizard but my comparison methods has served me well these past 15 years and I reserve the right to *champion* the Bang-For-Buck mantra, I am examining two objects that perform almost identical functions and I am asking my fellow forum members on their opinions with regards to Performance vs Cost ££ . . . For you to suggest I have given people the wrong opinion is again a logical fallacy, specifically Argumentum ad hominem and with all due respect I or my motives am not the subject of scrutiny here but these two pieces of hardware and their Price/Performance Ratio are
  • INTEL® Core™ i7 920
  • AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620
Fire Wizard said:
If the users workload only consists of surfing the web, writing documents and light gaming, then an Intel Core i7 920 system isn't going to have much advantage over a [more affordable] AMD / Intel system because there is no demand for it and in that sense, it is over priced. However, this doesn't make the actual product overpriced (weather it actually is or not, I will hold back my thoughts for now) it is simply the wrong product for that particular users needs and I certainly wouldn't suggest an Intel Core i7 920 based system to them in those sorts of cases.
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I'm glad to hear that and I never thought you would over-spec someone although I see it happen a lot around the forum . . . I do not know much about you or your hardware background and in fairness to yourself these have nothing to do with your contribution to this thread but I am left wondering if you are basing your posts on anything factual? . . . there seems to be a trace of innuendo in that you are suggesting the AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 system is suitable only for "surfing the web, writing documents and light gaming" :confused: . . . that may or may not be what you are inferring so if I have that wrong then please accept my apologies! :) . . if however I am right then I do believe you are heavily under-esitimating the performance capabilities of AMD's latest and greatest!!!!

Fire Wizard said:
I still don't agree with your comparison method because I feel it doesn't give a true representation of weather or not an Intel Core i7 920 system is actually overpriced or not
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I am perfectly entitled to make a thread and discuss whatever hardware I choose although it seems my *specific* selection is not pleasing to some yet it is pleasing to others? . . . most confusing as it entirely logical and entirely legitimate . . . I would ask you kindly to either give me your opinion on the O.P or perhaps make a new thread discussing the validity of my comparison but anything else is not contributing to this one *specific* thread . . .

Fire Wizard said:
we are also comparing two products in the most logical form
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I am comparing two products in their most logical form, I've been doing this along time and I will continue doing this along time, I am an old-school overclocker, bang for buck is *very* appealing to me, I have no bias except towards obtaining as much performance for as least money as possible . . . . I spend many many hours on these forums freely giving as much help and advice as possible and I do this because I care, I care a lot about my community and I feel quite strongly that people must always be given as much information as possible about a product before being persuaded to part with what little spare money they have, if people want to spend a small fortune on a system I respect that but if I have knowledge that there is a new and very appealing product being sold that makes a mockery of the Price/Performance Ratio of the INTEL® Flagship I an entitled to let them know . . . from a gamers perspective and from someone who is interested in getting the best value for money possible the best logical choice *if* buying new appears to be the AMD® Athlon™ II X4 620 . . . IMHO it makes the flagship product from the INTEL® Corporation look extremely overpriced! :eek: . . . but this thread is about other peoples opinions and not mine! :cool:

bangforbuck.jpg

AMD® Phenom™ II was a clever *misdirection* . . . . Here comes Intel® Corporation big headache!
 
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I have just spent give or take £1000 on a new pc (the case and the inards lol) as I already had mouse/keyboard and some decent monitors and I went through all my options

due to the fact that I wanted to rip all my media -including hi def - to a streamer meant that I believed (with Win 7) I would need a pretty powerful cpu and plenty of ram.

I went through all the options - shuttle and other sff, big companies like Dell etc, building my own - and also looking through Intel /AMD as I was very interested in trying the phenomII but without doubt the best I could do was a prebuilt system from OcUK around the i7 920 DO

Ive had AMD systems in the past all the way back to the original Slot A Athlon (in fact I may have had one before that, but not entirely sure after all the pc's Ive had in the last 15 or so years)
 
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