6 Points, No insurance!

Am I the only one who finds the whole insurance issue a bit stupid?

I mean suppose I didn't have insurance, I would still be liable for third party damage so I think the fact the law forbids persons from accepting the liability themselves to be against human rights. As far as I am concerned if I have available to me the disposable income to cover the costs of any damage I cause why should I be forced to have insurance? Why are cars so different to anything else? I could easily cause a lot of damage with many things I own... but I don't have to insure those.

When arguing this point before I usually get told it is because those without insurance tend to be financially pushed and probably wouldn't be able to produce 200k if they destroyed a Ferrari.... fair enough point but what about those who could and wish to take the chance?

How easy is it to create an insurance company? Presumably I can't just register a company liable, but then the barriers to entry can't be totally unsurmountable.

Back OT - If you 'thought' you had a policy that covered you, the police officer would presumably have had no reason to doubt this and would have asked you to produce this at a station at a later date, thus how did an 'on the spot' penalty come about? How did he prove you didn't have insurance if you thought you did?

Is there not a law stating that you must have commited a road traffic offence or be under suspicion of having commited one before you were pulled over?
 
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What did you do to attract the attention to get pulled over?
Where you driving badly, or maybe driving a poorly maintained car?
Its not something they do unless you prevoke them... pretty unlucky though.

Seems an honest mistake though, ive done the same thing! Its one of those situations where those that dont deserve to get punished harshly do, but those that drive around everyday without insurance get away with it, hopefully the judge will see it this way, but its unlikely considering the stories you hear.
If it were me, and I got my licence taken, I would be very tempted to just drive uninsured.
 
Phil W said:
Slightly OT, my brother is facing loosing his licence for "dangerous driving" (long story) and also points for driving with no insurance. Even with all the points they could stack up, (aside from the fines) he is within the 2 year probation, so as soon as they issue him with them, he re-takes his test, points are wpied and he is on a clean slate. The law really is a strange thing.
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Totally wrong.


If he is getting prosecuted for dangerous driving the minimum ban is 12 months... doesn't matter if he hasn't been driving he will be *banned* and have to do extended retest after his ban, regardless of him not having a full driving licence for 24months.
 
laissez-faire said:
bla
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It is possible to insure yourself, but afaik to do so you must prove you have a massive amount of money. Say you caused a pileup on a motorway, you could easily rack up millions of pounds of damage. Can you really afford that?


Oh and 50/50 this has allready been covered, driving religiously by the book in the middle of the night usually = drunk/stoned and trying to avoid police attention, but in actual fact attracts more.
 
People don;t seem to be very confident with me. He said he pulled me as a swerved abit, but im not convinced, if i did nothing major. Like you say its all bad luck, I do have moter insurance but its just DOC which i thought it would be.

It would take at least two months to reapply for provisional then take two tests i assume.
 
Clarkey said:
A mate of mine got done for the same thing, lost his lisence. Also with the endorsement on it, his insurance quotes are now monumental. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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Did he go to court? did he need the car for work?
 
[TW]Fox said:
Am I the only one who thinks this whole 'I need my job' thing is a load of rubbish?

Before you jump on me, I'm talking generally in that people are often able to get a reduced 'sentance' becuase they need their license for work.

How is that fair? If two of us go out and commit exactly the same crime, why should one get a reduced sentance simply becuase he needs a car to get to work?
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Not really, sentencing goes on more than just the incident itself. The offense is looked at and then all the other personal considerations are examined. For example the man who is a serial criminal gets harsher sentencing than the person who does something completly out of character. If the judge did not look at other elements then they would both get the same punishment which I don't think would be right.

They could stop him using his car, this would result in the loss of his job which is not good for society. Or he could get a high fine learn his lesson, probably never do anything like that again and keep his job. If he was unemployed then this would not come into the equation and so therefore is not a consideration. Clearly one size does not fit all and so the sentencing will never be the same for everyone for the same offense.

I think that Judges need to take an utilitarian view on these sorts of things more often than they do.
 
unfortunately the usual response in cases such as these is that ignorance is no defence in the eyes of the law.
my sympathies goto the OP as he made a common mistake.I hope things proceed as leniently as possible for him.




and going wildly OT for a moment this is my first post from my vario2.
mucho impressed.
 
You need to plead guilty to the offence at court and I would suggest getting a solicitor to represent you (will cost about £200 for this). As the guy above me has said, ignorance is not an excuse, however, as a first offence, you can state that it was not worded accurately in your documentation as to whether you could drive a car or not.

A friend of mine got done for exactly the same thing. He already had 6 points and a previous 56day ban for speeding all within the last 3 years. He was a student and didnt rely on his car for his job either. Due to the fact he pleaded guilty, (it was by no means his first offence), and begged (if you like) that its was a genuine error on his part. The court banned him for 21 days and charged him £35 (probably as he was a student). They also gave him a 12 month condition whereby if he committed another offence within the next 12 months, the court would be allowed to reconsider their decision for the Driving without insurance conviction.

Also, as you have noted, it is worth mentioning that you are by no means a criminal / joyrider. You have your own insurance policy and pay through the nose for it. This was a mistake.

Good luck
 
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laissez-faire said:
I mean suppose I didn't have insurance, I would still be liable for third party damage so I think the fact the law forbids persons from accepting the liability themselves to be against human rights.
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Since when did the law do that?

As far as I am concerned if I have available to me the disposable income to cover the costs of any damage I cause why should I be forced to have insurance?
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If you can prove this and have a certain sum held in a bank account, I believe it is several million, you can indeed not buy an insurance policy.

Thing is, unless you are Mr William Gates its entirely possible, however unlikely, that you may one day cause an accident you cannot pay for. Imagine you cause a huge accident involving up to 10 different cars which is so serious many of the drivers need long term specialist medical care - this could run into millions and millions of pounds.

Got that down the back of the sofa?
 
[TW]Fox said:
this could run into millions and millions of pounds.

Got that down the back of the sofa?
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let me check :p

i know 2 people who got done for no insurance, both got 6 points + a small fine. A good friend (in his 40's) said he was done years ago and both him and the car owner got 4 points + fine :eek:
 
Fensta said:
You can state that it was not worded accurately in your documentation as to whether you could drive a car or not.
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The OP just misread it which may mean that it is written quite accurately. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't. Most insurance policies are very well worded to cover themselves. Mine clearly states that you have to be 25 before DOC cover is given.

Fensta said:
Is it not something like £150,000 (cash) in the bank which you have to pay to a court (or someother intermediary)?
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You would need to have way more than that. Unlikely, but what if you ran into a Ferrari Enzo. It would cost way more than that. As others have said, costs run into millions of pounds. £150,000 wouldn't even touch the surface in some accidents.
 
Your mate is also looking at 6 points and a nice fine for being silly enough to let you drive his vehicle with no insurance, he is obliged to check your documents too tbh.
 
oap said:
Your mate is also looking at 6 points and a nice fine for being silly enough to let you drive his vehicle with no insurance, he is obliged to check your documents too tbh.
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Crud.

How is his mate meant to know if the driver of his car has DOC or not? He is obliged (within his own right) to check the document, but has no legal requirement to do so.
 
[TW]Fox said:
Am I the only one who thinks this whole 'I need my job' thing is a load of rubbish?
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It might be rubbish, it might not be. Although, what good is someone on the dole to this country. Not only are they having money every week from us 'tax payers' but, they are not paying tax themselves.

If the OP is genuine, I think the magistrate should give him a hefty fine and 5 points.
 
Summons will take up to 3months to come through (mine took just under 3 months)

i wouldn't bother with a solicitor, its not like youve murdered anyone

if i were you i would plead guilty, you get a chance to explain things to the magistrates, just tell them the truth that she felt ill etc and you thought you were covered it was all a big mistake and that you really need your car so that you can drive to work and you take your dying grandma shopping every friday... shouldnt be too harsh on you

i got caught speeding after a year of driving, 50mph over the speed limit.. the magistrates concluded that it would be bad ban me from totting up 6 points so they gave me a small ban. so i dont think you will do too badly.
 
I'm not going to jump on your back because I did the same thing (but I didn't get caught) a few times in my dads car. I was lucky enough to have DOC cover from 17 and when I changed insurer I read the policy booklet and age was not one of the exclusions for DOC. So I happily drove his car several (more like dozens) of times until I was at the Post office one day getting a tax disc and I noticed that at the bottom of the insurance cert there was a size 5 font line saying Driving other cars: not covered.

I gave them a call and was told it was due to me being under 25. I asked why it wasn't mentioned in the policy booklet and ended up putting the phone down on the stoppy cow who was basically saying "it doesn't matter what we do or don't put in the policy booklet" yeah thanks for that...

Hope you don't get too heavily punished as there is a world of difference between an honest mistake and Mr Insurance dodger... I sumhow doub't the courts will see the difference though :(
 
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