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770 or 7970?

Fair point, as at those settings it was unplayable.

IIRC the was a furore over those results and a few ppl on here benched some games themselves to see how much vram was used/cached

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18497413

Hitman: Absolution

1,800MB - 1920x1080 - Ultra (8xMSAA) - 7970 CF

So this is my problem, these test's where done after that reveiw.

You can see crossfire 7970's didn't use over 2gb vram

Pgi did the Hitman test

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=23962963&postcount=69

I'm not being awkward, if I'm wrong I'm happy to be proved wrong :)

I've always preferred users reviews/opinions over official reviews

+1
 
That's the thing. 8/10 people seem to confuse "memory capacity (the amount of vram)" with "memory bandwidth (the rate at which data can be read from or stored into the memory by the GPU)".

GTX770 256-bit memory clock at stock 7000MHz = 224GB/sec
HD7970 GHz 384-bit memory clock at stock 6000MHz = 288GB/sec

GTX770 256-bit memory clock overclocked to 8000MHz = 256GB/sec
HD7970 384-bit memory clock overclocked to 7200MHz = 345GB/sec

SO as long as i didnt OC the memory i wouldnt hit a band width limit on an gtx 770?
 
Do you think I should see all my AMD cards and replace them with NVidia

Yes or no ?

Perhaps I should get a couple of MSI GTX 780 lightnings what do you think ?

What are you talking about, and why are you putting a space before your question marks?

And my argument has been that the HD 7970 and GTX 770 will become obsolete at the same time as they will both run out of GPU grunt.

Which has shown to be false, as settings for the GTX680 are having to be turned down now more so than the 7970.

I would hardly call an average 52 fps a good selling point for any new card.

That's beside the point, we're talking about people who are wanting to buy now.
 
SO as long as i didnt OC the memory i wouldnt hit a band width limit on an gtx 770?

It's the other way around. If you OC the RAM you will reduce the possibility of saturating the memory bandwidth a bit.

However it's still very limited, as 8GHz is pushing the VRAM very hard.
 
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/02/21/nvidia_geforce_gtx_titan_video_card_review/4#.UfKHx23kyI9



It puts to rest the "herp derp memory usage is intrinsically linked to GPU power".

I really don't get people's reluctance to entertain the notion that 2GB@256bit is just not suitable for high end gaming now and in the near future.

A while back I bought NFS : Shift from a local shop for about £3. I hadn't played it much before. I'm running two 2gb 670s in SLI...

Any way at the time I had 4gb system ram in my PC. I fired up the game and due to running such a barbaric GPU configuration I decided to start using 8XMSAA instead of the 4.

I immediately got a message across the screen in red letters from the Nvidia driver (similar to the 3D messages you get when running 3Dvision) telling me my PC did not have enough memory to run my chosen setting and so it was going to drop to 4XMSAA.

That was the first time I saw such a message so I upgraded to 12gb total. Message gone.

I know with Radeons it works differently and you will see more memory use (VRAM) on a Radeon than you will on a Geforce. I also read (about the panic of the consoles getting 8GB VRAM of sorts) that Nvidia cards can and will tap into system memory when they need to.

This would also explain the drastic performance hit you see between 4XMSAA and 8XMSAA because as soon as you use system memory it will slow things down badly.

So, whether or not the message they were getting with that game was down to VRAM and allocated system memory or the actual VRAM? well I have only ever seen it once and it was down to not having enough system memory to run 8XMSAA.

So, providing you use 4XMSAA then you should have no problems and 2gb VRAM is more than enough at the moment so I somewhat disagree with your scaremongering.

I also don't agree with the whole "But mods for XXX game use loads of VRAM".

They do, I'm not disagreeing with that. But, they are usually very poorly optimised and make the game run like crap any way. Stick to the "out of the box" game and 2gb will be more than enough.
 
Do you think I should see all my AMD cards and replace them with NVidia

Yes or no ?

Perhaps I should get a couple of MSI GTX 780 lightnings what do you think ?

I ask again what do you think ?

What are you talking about, and why are you putting a space before your question marks?

Because I can.

What value is this point ?
 
A while back I bought NFS : Shift from a local shop for about £3. I hadn't played it much before. I'm running two 2gb 670s in SLI...

Any way at the time I had 4gb system ram in my PC. I fired up the game and due to running such a barbaric GPU configuration I decided to start using 8XMSAA instead of the 4.

I immediately got a message across the screen in red letters from the Nvidia driver (similar to the 3D messages you get when running 3Dvision) telling me my PC did not have enough memory to run my chosen setting and so it was going to drop to 4XMSAA.

That was the first time I saw such a message so I upgraded to 12gb total. Message gone.


Message has gone because you have enough RAM to do it, however that still means it's tapping in to system RAM and you'd get better FPS if you had more VRAM.

I know with Radeons it works differently and you will see more memory use (VRAM) on a Radeon than you will on a Geforce. I also read (about the panic of the consoles getting 8GB VRAM of sorts) that Nvidia cards can and will tap into system memory when they need to.

This would also explain the drastic performance hit you see between 4XMSAA and 8XMSAA because as soon as you use system memory it will slow things down badly.

This is RAM caching. If RAM is there, stuff will be cahced in it.

So, whether or not the message they were getting with that game was down to VRAM and allocated system memory or the actual VRAM? well I have only ever seen it once and it was down to not having enough system memory to run 8XMSAA.

System RAM will only really be an issue because of the lack of VRAM.

So, providing you use 4XMSAA then you should have no problems and 2gb VRAM is more than enough at the moment so I somewhat disagree with your scaremongering.

Ergo, turning settings down to accommodate the 2GB of VRAM.

It's also not scaremongering, it's anything but that.

It's an observation of, if GPU speeds are largely similar, why would you choose to go for the card which will become obsolete sooner?

I also don't agree with the whole "But mods for XXX game use loads of VRAM".

I never said this, but it's not something you can really disagree with.

They do, I'm not disagreeing with that. But, they are usually very poorly optimised and make the game run like crap any way. Stick to the "out of the box" game and 2gb will be more than enough.

It's not about them being poorly optimised, unless you believe poorly optimised to be the same as "needs more VRAM than I have available". There's little to it when it comes to optimising things like textures, texture resolution ultimately defines the size of a texture and high resolution textures take up more space in RAM than smaller resolution textures.

There really isn't a case of poor optimisation going on. Certain graphical effects consume memory, it's the way it is, and this is why it's said that they are poorly optimised, but they aren't they're just exceeding available resources.

It's like saying raytracing is slow because it's poorly optimised, this isn't the case, it's slow because computational power isn't available yet to allow it to run faster.

So it really just boils down to people claiming things are poorly optimised simply because it doesn't run on their system as well as they'd like.
 
I ask again what do you think ?

Again, I ask what are you talking about.

I literally have no idea what you're trying to ask me with that question.

Because I can.

What value is this point ?

No one said you can't, the question was firstly, more than that (ie, what are you talking about) and additionally, why are you doing that.

Because you can isn't really a response. If I ask you why are you talking so much smack about subjects you don't understand, is your response going to be that a public forum enables you to talk smack, so you do so?
 

As a matter of interest, why are you happy to recommend 2gb AMD cards, people do use them in xfire on a single monitor.

Or will you be updating you advice telling people not to bother with the 2gb AMD cards either for xfire.
 
As a matter of interest, why are you happy to recommend 2gb AMD cards, people do use them in xfire on a single monitor.

What advice? Or are you just making assumptions?

Or will you be updating you advice telling people not to bother with the 2gb AMD cards either for xfire.

I'm not saying people shouldn't under any circumstances get a 2GB card.

The point is that someone who is buying a 78XX card knows it's not a high end card already and will already understand that they will already need to lower settings.

Additionally, AMD's 3GB cards on a 384bit bus are more expensive than AMD's 2GB@256bit cards, and thus cater to different parts of the market.

But you knew this anyway, as I've said repeatedly, all things being equal except VRAM quantity and bus width, why would you choose the card with the lower VRAM and bus width.
 
You're not unbiased and you need to stop pretending that you are.

Do you think I should see all my AMD cards and replace them with NVidia

Yes or no ?

Perhaps I should get a couple of MSI GTX 780 lightnings what do you think ?

How more straight forward a question can there be ?

Are you so afraid of someone leaving the AMD side of things that you can not answer or offer a useful opinion.

I think you are the one who is biased and any neutral person can see that.

Go on recommend an NVidia card for the first time in your life.:D
 
How more straight forward a question can there be ?

A straight forward question?

"Do you think I should see all my AMD cards and replace them with NVidia"

Really? What does "see all my AMD cards" mean?


Are you so afraid of someone leaving the AMD side of things that you can not answer or offer a useful opinion.

What? :/

I couldn't care less what you use.

I think you are the one who is biased and any neutral person can see that.

Go on recommend an NVidia card for the first time in your life.:D

When did I claim to be unbiased? You are using unbiased as a synonym for objective. They don't mean the same thing.

:confused:
 
The original question was why would someone recommend a brand new card that performs generally the same, but can and will continue to lose out due to limited memory bandwidth/capacity.

The argument in response was that it doesn't affect existing games, and it won't before all this is obsolete anyway.

The first point has been proved not true, which shows the second is also untrue.

That's it really, isn't it? After that it's just coming down to 'your face' type arguments to avoid the question.
 
WOOT! Since i was here last two and a half full pages of ranting? come on dudes theres no need <3 I phoned overclockers today coz honestly i've been looking, reading and listening to all sorts for two weeks solid now and he said nVideas simply better in everyway, better driver support, better quality, better performance blah blah blah. Also i found this, and tbh this is the settler for me http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-219-EA&tool=3 look at the first review, from somone random who i've not spoken too has gone from 7970 to 770 and noticed improvments. Im even gonna buy that exact card, and when/if the time comes it can no longer play my games at ultra/max with a min 60fps i'll either get another in sli or wait till whatever gen is out at the time.

Wish i could afford the gtx780 coz atm bar the titen its the best card going im putting said new gpu in an i5 4670k system so gotta pay for the whole thing.

One note i would like to point out to everyone and perhaps its more of a plus side to amd as apposed to nvidea but the 780 has the same spec (ish) on paper as the 7970 with regards size of vram 3gb and memory bandwidth 384bit so perhaps that is the future?

Never the less still going with the 770 purely on that guys review on ocuk site.
 
WOOT! Since i was here last two and a half full pages of ranting? come on dudes theres no need <3 I phoned overclockers today coz honestly i've been looking, reading and listening to all sorts for two weeks solid now and he said nVideas simply better in everyway, better driver support, better quality, better performance blah blah blah.

You have been given BS info by whoever was on the phone. This isn't the first time that they've done this and some one has posted about it, staff on the forums have said they'll look in to phone staff giving out BS like this.

nVidia drivers are not better, they've barely been able to get working drivers out for the past month.


Also i found this, and tbh this is the settler for me http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-219-EA&tool=3 look at the first review, from somone random who i've not spoken too has gone from 7970 to 770 and noticed improvments. Im even gonna buy that exact card, and when/if the time comes it can no longer play my games at ultra/max with a min 60fps i'll either get another in sli or wait till whatever gen is out at the time.

Of course they're going to notice an improvement, they've just made a sidegrade.

It's called purchase justification syndrome.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/768?vs=829

Wish i could afford the gtx780 coz atm bar the titen its the best card going im putting said new gpu in an i5 4670k system so gotta pay for the whole thing.

One note i would like to point out to everyone and perhaps its more of a plus side to amd as apposed to nvidea but the 780 has the same spec (ish) on paper as the 7970 with regards size of vram 3gb and memory bandwidth 384bit so perhaps that is the future?

Never the less still going with the 770 purely on that guys review on ocuk site.

I think it's very clear that you want to buy nVidia, as despite the many posts showing you that you'd be better off with a 7970, you're still wanting to go for a 770 and you are seeking things to validate the want.

By all means, buy what you want as it's ultimately your choice, but have been presented with plenty of evidence that shows a 7970 would be the better choice in terms of performance on longevity.

But again, buy what you want as your purchase only affects you.
 
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Why isn't there a 'do not find this review helpful' thing on the reviews? Saying a 7970 OC to 770 change is a huge upgrade is ridiculous fanboy nonsense.
 
ok so im back to sqaure one, you guys have no idea how ****ing confused i am right now! Just when i think i've made a solid choise boom :'(
 
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