7800X so slow ....

gavinh87 · 23 Aug 2017 at 19:25

8 Pack said:
These reviewers don't push cache on 7800X and so on so these graphs are not correct. Ryzen gets a cache bump with any memory oc at all.

The i9 cpu's all benefit a lot from cache overclocking to help with the new architecture.

https://www.techspot.com/review/1457-ryzen-7-vs-core-i7-octa-core/
https://www.techspot.com/review/1457-ryzen-7-vs-core-i7-octa-core/page2.html

Even with the cache overclocked the extra cost is not justified. In gaming at least.
Coffee is the best bet for multicore gaming now.

james_2k · 23 Aug 2017 at 19:29

gavinh87 said:
https://www.techspot.com/review/1457-ryzen-7-vs-core-i7-octa-core/
https://www.techspot.com/review/1457-ryzen-7-vs-core-i7-octa-core/page2.html

Even with the cache overclocked the extra cost is not justified. In gaming at least.
Coffee is the best bet for multicore gaming now.

3ghz isnt a large cache OC, they put the ram at 3200? that's slow as hell on Intel, can easily get 4ghz on these badboys.

and again, what you perceive as value will be different for someone else. And the guy with the 7800x can play games while doing something else and still match the 1700

Rroff · 23 Aug 2017 at 19:31

james_2k said:
3ghz isnt a large cache OC, they put the ram at 3200? that's slow as hell on Intel, can easily get 4ghz on these badboys.

and again, what you perceive as value will be different for someone else. And the guy with the 7800x can play games while doing something else and still match the 1700

Memory frequency, even on the most up to date DDR4 platforms with Intel isn't anything like the performance boost though that Zen is seeing. In fact if you aren't careful you can penalise overall performance on Intel on quad channel setups by going too high a frequency if you aren't watching what is happening with latency as well.

james_2k · 23 Aug 2017 at 19:34

That's not my point, it still is a performance increase, one which isn't used in those reviews. And of course you have to verify latency and bandwidth when you make adjustments. Not much to compare against but i have mine stable at 105GB/s read write and 93,500MB/s copy @ 50 latency which is pretty good.

gavinh87 · 23 Aug 2017 at 19:38

james_2k said:
3ghz isnt a large cache OC, they put the ram at 3200? that's slow as hell on Intel, can easily get 4ghz on these badboys.

and again, what you perceive as value will be different for someone else. And the guy with the 7800x can play games while doing something else and still match the 1700

I have no idea on what a good cache overclock is, I dont own a x299 platform I just googled it.
As Rroff said, memory scaling doesn't have a big impact on intel like it does on ryzen.
Not sure what you mean by this "And the guy with the 7800x can play games while doing something else and still match the 1700"
If anything the 1700 would beat it due to having 2 extra cores and already matching it games.

As already said, coffeelake will make the 7800x look like crap. The only interesting CPU's on x299 are the 7740k and the 7900x and above.

james_2k · 23 Aug 2017 at 19:42

Well we will have to agree to disagree, fact is, the 7800 is faster in non game things and the same in games. that makes it a better cpu overall. worth the extra cash? for the buyer to decide.

gavinh87 · 23 Aug 2017 at 19:47

james_2k said:
Well we will have to agree to disagree, fact is, the 7800 is faster in non game things and the same in games. that makes it a better cpu overall. worth the extra cash? for the buyer to decide.

There is more to a CPU being better than pure performance, at least in enthusiasts minds. Power consumption, heat, noise all come into play too.
Remember the 290x? It was faster than the 780 and it was cheaper but it was hailed as a piece of crap due to the above factors.

james_2k · 23 Aug 2017 at 19:59

heat and noise can be mitigated by cooling, yes more money but as said, for some that isn't a factor

And we are just dancing around the issue that, yes all CPUs have merit depending on the end user, that's a good thing. However for some people who don't fit into a particular user case to say that someone is terrible, then i just cant see past the fanboyism.

gavinh87 · 23 Aug 2017 at 20:05

james_2k said:
heat and noise can be mitigated by cooling, yes more money but as said, for some that isn't a factor

And we are just dancing around the issue that, yes all CPUs have merit depending on the end user, that's a good thing. However for some people who don't fit into a particular user case to say that someone is terrible, then i just cant see past the fanboyism.

I'm no fanboy, far from it. I just cant see the point of 7800x/7820x. Same way I can't see the reason for the 1800x
Now, wheres coffee lake?

kully1972 · 23 Aug 2017 at 20:20

It's a premium enthusiast platform and the upgrade path has way more options than coffee lake.
Dont criticize on affordability alone.
I've seen a huge jump in minimum framerates and even distribution amongst all 12 threads.
I fully endorse the platform and we don't need to defend our choices against misers.

gavinh87 · 23 Aug 2017 at 20:33

kully1972 said:
It's a premium enthusiast platform and the upgrade path has way more options than coffee lake.
Dont criticize on affordability alone.
I've seen a huge jump in minimum framerates and even distribution amongst all 12 threads.
I fully endorse the platform and we don't need to defend our choices against misers.

Yet you felt the need to post to defend your choice against said misers?
There's more to it than price, heat, power consumption, vrm issues and the 7800x is about to get mullered by the 8700k it really has no place.

james_2k · 23 Aug 2017 at 20:38

Aside from having an awesome name (who doesnt want a lake of coffee) it may, or may not, the x299 cpu though has other things going for it with the quad channel memory, different upgrade path etc. Its a valid choice (not one i would make, but no issues with anyone who does)

gavinh87 said:
I'm no fanboy, far from it. I just cant see the point of 7800x/7820x. Same way I can't see the reason for the 1800x
Now, wheres coffee lake?

wasn't specifically referring to you, at least you are making some reasonable arguments.

Journey · 23 Aug 2017 at 21:38

james_2k said:
again, cost isn't everything for some people, for some its nothing. also the 'decent free cooler' and 'terrible AIO'? hah right..

How many Ryzen systems have you owned/built to be able to comment on the cooler supplied? Also yes, £60 will get you a terrible AIO, I chose the option of adding a cheap one to keep the price comparison low.

If you also bothered to read my previous comments, I have said cost isn't everything for certain users, but it is nigh on impossible to justify the double + a bit price for that extra performance, in what is now a mid budget category.

Doobedoo · 23 Aug 2017 at 21:51

james_2k said:
However for some people who don't fit into a particular user case to say that someone is terrible, then i just cant see past the fanboyism.

To be fair dude you could quite easily be considered to be on the other end of the fanboy scale, you have recently spent a lot of money on a high end Intel platform yourself.

Not saying you are but it's easy to make that assumption too. It's nice to have a bit of back and forth but it's largely the same arguments over and over again, opinions are like bum holes after all

james_2k · 23 Aug 2017 at 22:05

Journey said:
How many Ryzen systems have you owned/built to be able to comment on the cooler supplied? Also yes, £60 will get you a terrible AIO, I chose the option of adding a cheap one to keep the price comparison low.

If you also bothered to read my previous comments, I have said cost isn't everything for certain users, but it is nigh on impossible to justify the double + a bit price for that extra performance, in what is now a mid budget category.

Maybe for you it is, for others not so much. How about choose a good, mid range air cooler then? why compare against liquid cooling? which on the budget end is no better than air.

Doobedoo said:
To be fair dude you could quite easily be considered to be on the other end of the fanboy scale, you have recently spent a lot of money on a high end Intel platform yourself.

Not saying you are but it's easy to make that assumption too. It's nice to have a bit of back and forth but it's largely the same arguments over and over again, opinions are like bum holes after all

difference being, i haven't said people shouldn't be buying ryzen, nor berating those who have.

but yes, totally agree, circular arguments. I wasn't planning on getting involved, but maybe my inner fanboy got sick of reading all the hype/anti intel in pretty much every thread containing a cpu discussion, we get it you like amd, now buy one and move on - we dont all have to buy the same thing

Doobedoo · 23 Aug 2017 at 22:11

james_2k said:
but yes, totally agree, circular arguments. I wasn't planning on getting involved, but maybe my inner fanboy got sick of reading all the hype/anti intel in pretty much every thread containing a cpu discussion, we get it you like amd, now buy one and move on - we dont all have to buy the same thing

I know it may be what you call karma what goes around comes around sort of thing.

But yes I do prefer amd but also have an Intel weird but true

. The one good thing to come from all this, is choice, we all have more choice so that we no longer have to all buy the same thing

Journey · 23 Aug 2017 at 22:11

james_2k said:
Maybe for you it is, for others not so much. How about choose a good, mid range air cooler then? why compare against liquid cooling? which on the budget end is no better than air.

Two reasons, knocking £30 of means very little difference, and a good air cooler costs £60. So, take the £30 cooler means you can't overclock the 7800x much, but the included AMD cooler will get you within 100-150 MHz of the highest clock possible for that CPU.

Again how many of either of these systems have you built?

james_2k · 23 Aug 2017 at 22:14

Zero. now please tell me how that invalidates anything? How many actual overclocking enthusiasts are going to stay on the stock amd cooler?

how many 7800x systems have you built?

@Doobedoo Amen brother

~>Dg<~ · 23 Aug 2017 at 22:16

8 Pack said:
These reviewers don't push cache on 7800X and so on so these graphs are not correct. Ryzen gets a cache bump with any memory oc at all.

The i9 cpu's all benefit a lot from cache overclocking to help with the new architecture.

most bench single player games with little to no difference.when you see games that use the cores properly for eg bf intel are way ahead.people are even saying the i9s are bad now.hahaha

as posted previously 5 ghz i9 7900x is 30 fps in front of any ryzen in crysis 3 for eg.top performance isnt about value.

no ryzen is coming close to a ocd 7740x either.

Doobedoo · 23 Aug 2017 at 22:27

Yawn!

What happens if you have a 1440p monitor or above?