8/2 Spoilers

Youstolemyname · 9 Feb 2006 at 00:14

fozzybear said:
Without Gerrard you're nothing more than a mid-table team. A totally gutless performance so far from Liverpool. Its not as it Charlton have been that good!

That is quite possibly the most ludicrous, unsubstantiated post ever. Last season we amassed MORE points when Gerrard was injured than when he started for Liverpool. We beat Juventus without him and in the Charlton game today totally controlled the first half. Circa 63% posession to Liverpool. Mid table without Gerrard? Dream on. We are more than a one man team.

I watched the game today, and every Liverpool game this season, and all Liverpool are lacking at the moment is strikers- Morientes, Cisse and Crouch do not cut the mustard. Simple as. I fully expect Rafa to offload Cisse and Morientes this summer with Pongolle possibly going too. Expect David Villa, Dirk Kuyt, Jermaine Pennant and Jermaine Defoe coming in.

Davey_Pitch said:
I didn't say Hibbert is the best right back we have, but he's certainly good enough to be in the England squad. He's admittedly not that great going forward, but he's as good as Neville defensively IMO.

If Carragher cannot get in the England squad regularly, how do you work out that Hibbert deserves to get in? Carragher was doing a better job at right back before Hibbert had left school.

Davey_Pitch · 9 Feb 2006 at 01:43

Youstolemyname said:
If Carragher cannot get in the England squad regularly, how do you work out that Hibbert deserves to get in? Carragher was doing a better job at right back before Hibbert had left school.

Erm, because *in my opinion* he's the 2nd best English right back? That clear it up for you?

fozzybear · 9 Feb 2006 at 05:53

Youstolemyname said:
That is quite possibly the most ludicrous, unsubstantiated post ever. Last season we amassed MORE points when Gerrard was injured than when he started for Liverpool.

So you're a better team without Gerrard are you?

daz.wallace · 9 Feb 2006 at 07:27

fozzybear said:
So you're a better team without Gerrard are you?

Any team in the premiership, with the possible exception of Chelsea (but judging by the amount of times they have tried to sign him, you can include them) would be a better team with Gerrard in it.

we are not a one man team though (we were last season), we had the same problem last night without Gerrard that we have had in our previous three games with him and that is a lack of decent goal scorers. we need a couple of decent forwards. Cisse and Morientes need to go, they are just not cutting it in this league.

Crouch is a very good player, his touch is good and he brings a lot to the team. he is ideal as a second striker, or to come of the bench for something different if plan A is not working but we need a main striker, someone who is guaranteed to score 20+ league goals every season, someone like Van Nistelroy or Fowler when he was in his prime.

I think it was Andy Gray who hit the nail on the head during the game against Man Utd and he said if Liverpool had Rooney and Van Nistelroy in the team we would be neck and neck with Chelsea.

I think Dtab said it earlier but possesion is nothing if we do nothing with it or have nobody to put the ball in the net.

Davey_Pitch · 9 Feb 2006 at 10:22

daz.wallace said:
I think it was Andy Gray who hit the nail on the head during the game against Man Utd and he said if Liverpool had Rooney and Van Nistelroy in the team we would be neck and neck with Chelsea.

I personally disagree with that, I think your midfield isn't as good, and the strength in depth Chelsea have is immense. It would certainly make things more interesting though.

Burned_Alive · 9 Feb 2006 at 11:42

If we really want to compete we need at the very minimum, a LB, a RW and two Strikers, we do need a LW as well but Gonzalez is coming in the summer should hopefully sort that out.

On a happier note, we're close to signing Gabriel Paletta:
http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?...id=&lid=3&title=Reds+close+on+Argentine+swoop

daz.wallace · 9 Feb 2006 at 12:51

Burned_Alive said:
On a happier note, we're close to signing Gabriel Paletta:
http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?...id=&lid=3&title=Reds+close+on+Argentine+swoop

So whats the deal here? i thought you couldn't sign anyone outside of the transfer window :confused:

Can you still buy players but not use them till the window opens again?

Burned_Alive · 9 Feb 2006 at 12:52

daz.wallace said:
So whats the deal here? i thought you couldn't sign anyone outside of the transfer window Can you still buy players but not use them till the window opens again?

Something like that, he wouldnt join us until June.

Gilly · 9 Feb 2006 at 12:55

WTF are Banfield?

Youstolemyname · 9 Feb 2006 at 13:17

Davey_Pitch said:
Erm, because *in my opinion* he's the 2nd best English right back? That clear it up for you?

Fair enough mate, your entitled to your opinion- mine is that Carragher could do a better job at right back than Hibbert even though Carra's best position is centre back.

BaZ87 · 9 Feb 2006 at 13:18

Gilly said:
WTF are Banfield?

A small Argentine club

Davey_Pitch said:
I personally disagree with that, I think your midfield isn't as good, and the strength in depth Chelsea have is immense. It would certainly make things more interesting though.

In terms of strength in depth Chelsea are miles ahead of every team, but there 3 man central midfield isn't better than Liverpool's. Gerrard is better than Lampard, Makelele is better defensively than Alonso but Alonso is better on the ball and then you have Essien and Sissoko, not too much between them. Also you just have to look at the match the other day; liverpool controlled the midfield but just didnt have any cutting edge up front.

Gilly · 9 Feb 2006 at 14:07

BaZ87 said:
Gerrard is better than Lampard

No he isn't.

Davey_Pitch · 9 Feb 2006 at 14:35

BaZ87 said:
In terms of strength in depth Chelsea are miles ahead of every team, but there 3 man central midfield isn't better than Liverpool's. Gerrard is better than Lampard, Makelele is better defensively than Alonso but Alonso is better on the ball and then you have Essien and Sissoko, not too much between them. Also you just have to look at the match the other day; liverpool controlled the midfield but just didnt have any cutting edge up front.

Liverpool controlled the midfield as they had 5 there compared to Chelsea's 4. When Liverpool went behind they went 4 against 4 in midfield and were completely outplayed.

maby66 · 9 Feb 2006 at 15:34

Also you just have to look at the match the other day; liverpool controlled the midfield but just didnt have any cutting edge up front.

Liverpool had a period of maybe 20/25mins where they had the better of the play.
Once they went a goal down they were completely outplayed - it wasn't just a lack of cutting edge up front (though that must surely be a concern for Liverpool fans - good piece in the Guardian I think about it this week)

For last night, I had a concern given Evertons recent good performances against us - given the number of players coming in (Huth, SWP, Johnson) I thought that they would give us more problems.
In the event it was cruise control - was it one game too many or minds on other things?
Have to say though, that recent pronouncements by players from both teams in Liverpool about having found Chelsea out/know how to beat them are'nt the best thing to be doing before a big match - you're writing the team talk for the opposition.......

PS - the state of the pitch is apparently because it's being seeded rather than re-laid - it was relaid twice last year or something, and there is either a limit to how often it can be done or some such - its got a week or twos grace till Colchester.....still, wouldnt be surprised to see it re-laid after Barca anyhoo....

red11 · 9 Feb 2006 at 15:46

I would rather have Lampard in my team than Gerrard. Gerrard is a dirty player who gets away with a lot of reckless challenges. And whenever he comes up against a good midfield he turns invisible.

BaZ87 · 9 Feb 2006 at 16:19

Davey_Pitch said:
Liverpool controlled the midfield as they had 5 there compared to Chelsea's 4. When Liverpool went behind they went 4 against 4 in midfield and were completely outplayed.

Both sides either played with a 4-5-1 or a 4-3-3, wasnt until the end that Liverpool went to a 4-4-2 and at no point did Chelsea have 4 in midfield

Liverpool had a period of maybe 20/25mins where they had the better of the play.

Liverpool controlled the first half and all chelsea created was from set pieces, second half chelsea hit us on the break as we had to attack.

Gerrard is better than Lampard.

No he isn't.

Well thats your opinion, maybe in terms of goal scoring lampard is better but apart from that Gerrard is by far the better player; better passer, tackler, general fitness (pace strength power etc) and can play in several positions. If you asked most football fans, with exception to Chelsea, Everton and Man Utd fans most would agree that Gerrard is the better player. Only a few weeks back i read a column where they asked Dalglish, Phil Thompson, Ray Wilkens, Brian Robson and David Plat: Who was better Gerrard or Lampard? It was only Thompson and Dalglish that said they couldnt pick between the two, the rest went for Gerrard. Also only the other week Alan Hansen was asked who was better and he went for Gerrard too. Come to think of it, this question gets asked quite a lot to the so called "experts" and i can't remember any of them ever going for Lampard. I may be wrong about that though

atpbx · 9 Feb 2006 at 18:21

BaZ87 said:
Well thats your opinion, maybe in terms of goal scoring lampard is better but apart from that Gerrard is by far the better player; better passer, tackler, general fitness (pace strength power etc) and can play in several positions. If you asked most football fans, with exception to Chelsea, Everton and Man Utd fans most would agree that Gerrard is the better player.

Well its not just his, its the people who voted in the european player of the year awards, he came second, above Gerrard.
Also, Lampard won England player of the year award for the second year running (voted, by football fans) this year.
Lampard is a better footballer than Gerrard, its not an opinion, its a fact.

Gerrard gets his foot in certainly, but he isnt the player lampard is.

mcdermos · 9 Feb 2006 at 18:42

atpbx said:
Well its not just his, its the people who voted in the european player of the year awards, he came second, above Gerrard.
Also, Lampard won England player of the year award for the second year running (voted, by football fans) this year.
Lampard is a better footballer than Gerrard, its not an opinion, its a fact.

Isn't a vote a bunch of people expressing their opinion?

EDIT: I rate both very highly and we should be thankful we have 2 of the most highly rated midfielders in europe playing for england. Even if it maybe they don't play well together

BaZ87 · 9 Feb 2006 at 18:43

atpbx said:
Well its not just his, its the people who voted in the european player of the year awards, he came second, above Gerrard.
Also, Lampard won England player of the year award for the second year running (voted, by football fans) this year.
Lampard is a better footballer than Gerrard, its not an opinion, its a fact.

Gerrard gets his foot in certainly, but he isnt the player lampard is.

I agree that over the last 18-24months Lampard had been more consistent, but Lampard has not had a injury in that time and has been playing in a team that is winning where as Gerrard has missed around 6months with injuries over the last 2years and Liverpool having not been playing well. But if you take december for example; during that month Gerrard was in a league of his own, Lampard never has or ever will be able to play to that level. Basically what im saying is that i agree that Lampard has been playing better than Gerrard but when they both play to there peak there is no contest.
Also don't pay too much attention to Fiffa/Uefa rankings; El Hadji Diouf was in the top 100 living players but players like Roy Keane and Ian Rush were left out :confused:

atpbx · 9 Feb 2006 at 20:26

mcdermos said:
Isn't a vote a bunch of people expressing their opinion?

Where did i say it wasnt?

Its a two part response to a two part statement, the first part responding to "only chelsea, Everton and Man U fans think lampard is better than Gerrard", when 29 percent of england fans thinking he is better than Gerrard, and the associated sports media and players voting him better than Gerrard, thats a lot of opinions (the majority of people who expressed them in fact) suggesting that Lampard is a better player.

The second statement of "Lampard is a better footballer than Gerrard, its not an opinion, its a fact."

Lampard IS a better player than Gerrard, he plays the game better than Gerrard, you dont catch him blowing out his arse trying to be a one man army, he is a far more cultured player.