85 year old woman mauled to death in her own garden

Moogwai said:
I've met loads of staffies over the years and never met a bad one, all of them have been soppy and sweet, but then they were owned by people who cared about their animals and trained them correctly. Too many people get dogs without thinking about what they are getting into, and this guy who owned the two dogs judging by the picture says it all really.

Not sure how this thread went from some idiot who should never have owned a dog in the first place to getting rid pure breeds, there are plenty of healthy pure breeds out there. The Kennel Club really need to do more to try and eradicate the health problems that some breeds suffer though.
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Finally, someone on the thread who gets it
 
baldmonk said:
I Have 2 staffies dog and a bitch i didn't choose my dogs for any manly purpose but because they are amazing loyal pets they are so loving so easy to train. you can give a idiot any breed of dog and that person could turn said dog into the most aggressive animal ever!! my brother was attacked by a lab and left with really bad scars for life, its not the dog its THE OWNER!! simple as that.
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Any evidence of them been more loyal than other breeds or is it a case of it must be right because thats what everyone says.

The issue with this breed is not about likelihood of attacks, but rather how dangerous attacks are, they are very powerful muscular dogs, not to mention a habit of once attacking not letting the bite go until the prey is down.

Generally the defensive argument is the problem is always down to bad owners, solution to bad owners? a licensing system, but then there is opposition to licensing for dangerous breeds. There just seems to be complete opposition to any form of safety measures for these breeds. It has no logic to it, all emotion over logic.

Every one is sweet and caring until well when it isnt, when it attacks your child because its jealous of the attention it gets, there is even owners who have witnessed their dog attack people, but still consider it sweet and adorable, and even with this knowledge let it be around children and so forth.

See this story. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-merseyside-56665801

The mother allowed the pets to be near her pregnant daughter and children even when they had a history of attacks. I expect the vast majority of attacks are not reported and of course not on record as a result. To me a responsible owner is someone who recognises the dog is always a potential danger and as such is treated in that way.
 
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Minusorange said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-56497801

Bad owner or bad dog ?



Another example of the rich being above the law though even though dog attacked the people trying to rescue the seal as well
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Bad owner. If your dog can't be trusted to respond to recall then it shouldn't be off a lead. No "But the dog usually comes back". If it doesn't come back every time and you're not in a dog park or fenced enclosure, keep the thing on a lead. Some dogs just have an instinctive prey drive that over rides everything. Even if it's just to chase rather than bite. If that dog was mine it would be muzzled whenever I take it out after that and never let off a lead.

This winds me up massively, there is a complete moron who runs with two Collie Dogs loose of the lead on a bridal path near me, and the dogs have chased after horses on multiple occasions. Not only is he putting the horse and the rider at risk, all it takes is a stray kick and a dog is dead.

It's the same as everything else, "Well I want my dog off the lead so it can run!"... people feel entitled so **** everyone else.
 
Graetzbridge said:
A perspective from a vet:



If a Pitbull was raised the same way other dogs were, from a loving and caring home, would they still be more aggressive?

I was the first one to say, dogs reflect their owners. Now I realize, I was naive. I have had 4 doberman pinchers (at different times). Three were the sweetest cream puffs you have every seen. One, from the time I received him (at 11 weeks) was aggressive. When he was in the car as a baby, he growled at anyone and everyone who approached the car. When my husband and I played ball with him, he would come toward us, when we had the ball with so much conviction, he would plow us down, flat to the ground and not slow down. I trained all of my dogs and echinited the same behavior dog. He, because of his temperament, had the most training. He at one point attacked me biting me on the back of the head. We got him with under control, but only with an e collar. He taught me that some dogs are born aggressive. All of my dogs were raised in similar ways. He was the only one that was aggressive. My understanding from the breeder was that many of the puppies from that litter had similar temperaments. We currently have a 1.5 year old that is a sweetheart. I do believe that you can teach dogs to be aggressive. Some though, are aggressive regardless how you raise them.
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Thanks for the honest post, and given you are a vet as well and clearly have experience with the fact you have multiple dogs, I hope people give this credibility, we know humans can be born with mental illnesses, its not unreasonable to think other animals are the same, likewise I seen stories of dogs been soft most of their life but then turning aggressive when old, quite possibly due to pain, or mental ageing related diseases.
 
As expected this thread turns to a "let's get rid of certain breeds"

So should we apply that logic to human race, since there are many many bad eggs as it were let's kill ourselves off too?

Breeds are not the problem it's the owners who don't use common sense or train.

My dog (staffie) for example is lovely, big softie. Judged by his breed and look if we're out.

I remember long time ago I was walking him in a park on lead, this man had a little ankle biter, he said to me directly "I don't like your dogs"

I simply replied well its yours that's currently barking and bearing teeth whilst mine was sitting next to me with no reaction, he was uninterested in the little runt thing, I did also tell him to do one.

His excuse was his did that due to mine being a Staff.

I've had a German shepherd also nip me before, owners let it off the lead and it was too excited so did it by accident, however there the good breed according to some in here...

Common theme with every bad dog regardless of breed is a stupid owner.

What I will say is regardless of how any dog is, I think ALL dogs should be on a lead when in a public place. He'll I have two leads one short one and a very very long one so if I'm taking my dog to a big park etc he can be on the long one so he feels like he has more freedom to run yet I an easily stop anything am not happy with

Only time they should be off is at home in the house, garden etc.
 
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Mark1989 said:
So should we apply that logic to human race, since there are many many bad eggs as it were let's kill ourselves off too?
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We have prisons, and in some countries the death penalty for the ‘bad eggs’ so we already have measures to deal with bad human behaviour.

I’m curious what it is with some dog owners and this apparent desire to eradicate the human race.

edit: and as I pointed out to the other poster, no one is advocating killing off all dogs.
 
Thekwango said:
We have prisons, and in some countries the death penalty for the ‘bad eggs’ so we already have measures to deal with bad human behaviour.

I’m curious what it is with some dog owners and this apparent desire to eradicate the human race.

edit: and as I pointed out to the other poster, no one is advocating killing off all dogs.
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No just certain breeds that has been decided there all bad.

I don't want to kill us off either for what it's worth just pointing out the flawed logic, as it seems apparent here and many times this topic comes up that people suggest some breeds are bad so get rid, could easily apply that to us and any other animal. It's not right.

As you said if people are bad we have prison, death penalty other means etc. Of course we can't put animals in jail, they could however been trained and training should be mandatory if any person wishes to own a dog of any breed in my view as should be that all dogs are on leads when outside of there homes regardless of how trained/good said dog is.

I highly doubt any dog is born and thinks "that human looks tasty I'll eat em"
 
Mark1989 said:
No just certain breeds that has been decided there all bad.

I don't want to kill us off either for what it's worth just pointing out the flawed logic, as it seems apparent here and many times this topic comes up that people suggest some breeds are bad so get rid, could easily apply that to us and any other animal. It's not right.

As you said if people are bad we have prison, death penalty other means etc. Of course we can't put animals in jail, they could however been trained and training should be mandatory if any person wishes to own a dog of any breed in my view as should be that all dogs are on leads when outside of there homes regardless of how trained/good said dog is.

I highly doubt any dog is born and thinks "that human looks tasty I'll eat em"
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I havent seen any posts that say to kill breeds.
 
chrcoluk said:
Thanks for the honest post, and given you are a vet as well and clearly have experience with the fact you have multiple dogs, I hope people give this credibility, we know humans can be born with mental illnesses, its not unreasonable to think other animals are the same, likewise I seen stories of dogs been soft most of their life but then turning aggressive when old, quite possibly due to pain, or mental ageing related diseases.
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Thank you kindly, but I'm not a vet. I grew up with dogs, specifically collies. I missed them after I went out into the wide world but now I'm settled in my seventies. With the dog.

N5JOPdH.jpg
 
Mark1989 said:
As expected this thread turns to a "let's get rid of certain breeds"

So should we apply that logic to human race,
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Yes, I belive so... but y'all ain't ready for that conversation.

"OMG dowie not eugenics"

Well how about screening for downs syndrome, or testing for cancers or other issues with a strong genetic component - or simply a family with two boys who want a girl next... or indeed a couple (gay or otherwise) looking for a sperm or egg donor and wanting some details about the donor - like are they healthy, smart, tall etc..

Imagine if some alien race bred humans as pets and decided that humans with dwarfism or downs syndrome were cute - selectively bred humans to encourage those traits.. that is basically what a Pug is!

I don't really have an issue with say no more Pugs being born in future.
 
chrcoluk said:
Any evidence of them been more loyal than other breeds or is it a case of it must be right because thats what everyone says.

The issue with this breed is not about likelihood of attacks, but rather how dangerous attacks are, they are very powerful muscular dogs, not to mention a habit of once attacking not letting the bite go until the prey is down.

Generally the defensive argument is the problem is always down to bad owners, solution to bad owners? a licensing system, but then there is opposition to licensing for dangerous breeds. There just seems to be complete opposition to any form of safety measures for these breeds. It has no logic to it, all emotion over logic.

Every one is sweet and caring until well when it isnt, when it attacks your child because its jealous of the attention it gets, there is even owners who have witnessed their dog attack people, but still consider it sweet and adorable, and even with this knowledge let it be around children and so forth.

See this story. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-merseyside-56665801

The mother allowed the pets to be near her pregnant daughter and children even when they had a history of attacks. I expect the vast majority of attacks are not reported and of course not on record as a result. To me a responsible owner is someone who recognises the dog is always a potential danger and as such is treated in that way.
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ive owned dogs all my life some left too early from huskies to poms and by far the most loyal dogs ive ever had were staffs they were brought up along with my kids no problem at all and are protective and loyal to the whole family there are way more dangerous breeds out there !! I've been going to cruft's for over 20 years and know most staffy owner/ Breeder and not one has had a temperament issue simple as that and if brought up correctly and trained properly and are given the right amount of exercise daily there is no issue.year on year the breed that bites the most ppl are labs but because they look soft and friendly nothing is mentioned.
 
baldmonk said:
ive owned dogs all my life some left too early from huskies to poms and by far the most loyal dogs ive ever had were staffs they were brought up along with my kids no problem at all and are protective and loyal to the whole family there are way more dangerous breeds out there !! I've been going to cruft's for over 20 years and know most staffy owner/ Breeder and not one has had a temperament issue simple as that and if brought up correctly and trained properly and are given the right amount of exercise daily there is no issue.year on year the breed that bites the most ppl are labs but because they look soft and friendly nothing is mentioned.
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I'd love to see statistics backing that up. I have a soft spot for Staffies myself, but a Lab biting is a lot different to a Staff that won't let go. Saying that though, it really should be on a dog by dog basis, just because a breed is more inclined to something doesn't mean it's actually going to do it.
 
Probably not a popular opinion but does anyone else feel that Kennel Club / Cat Club (or whatever the Kitty equivalent may be) is half good and half a load of money printing BS for breeders and the organisation themselves?

Nobody wants a poorly / ill pet. So it better come with our rubber stamp! That’ll be £££ plz, thanks.

I dunno. My cats are lovely looking pedigrees and I paid a premium for them... but it does somewhat seem ‘money for not very much’. But I bought them rather than moggies, so supply and demand I guess...

I’ve always found it slightly odd.
 
I mean look at this, what a load of ********:

https://www.gccfcats.org/About-GCCF/Breeder-Scheme

Breeders who have signed up to the GCCF Breeder Scheme have shown their commitment to the standards required by the scheme's code of ethics. Please note that not all GCCF breeders will have signed up to using the scheme; this does not mean that they are not excellent or reputable breeders.

The code requires breeders to meet various criteria, as listed below:

  • They must show commitment to their breed by being a member of a GCCF affiliated cat club for the breed.
  • They must be familiar with what the breed should look and behave like and endeavour to breed cats of this type.
  • They must ensure that their own cats are well cared for.
  • They must take steps to make sure the kittens they breed have the best chance of a happy, healthy life and leave them fit and well. Kittens, must have completed the full course of vaccines, been examined by a vet at least twice and be GCCF registered and insured.
  • They must try to make sure kittens they breed go to individually suitable loving homes and that their new owners are given the support and help they may need to look after them.
Breeder's premises are currently not inspected as part of the scheme. You are advised to make sure you are happy with the environment and way in which the kittens are raised before purchasing. The GCCF cannot take responsibility for the health of any kitten purchased using the Breeder Scheme facility.
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Absolute rubbish.
 
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