A chav too far

theleg · 13 Jun 2006 at 11:55

Spacky said:
Nice one.

Question versus statement...

iCraig · 13 Jun 2006 at 11:56

Balddog said:
Ok im not calling you a liar mate but I do find that hard to believe..Youve never seen anyone, ever, throw a stone into the water to scare birds away?

Nope, the closest I've seen is people use a maggot catapault to fling rocks ducks at the other side of the lake.

Balddog said:
what else can you do?

Make hissing noises
Wave your rod/landing net in close proximity to them
Move away from the bank and let them get close, and then walk upto them briskly.

To name a few..

I doubt fisherman would use rocks to scare birds off, because they would know full well that they would scare the fish too. You also run the risk of hitting the bird. These kids may have done, but I doubt very much that any half intelligent angler would.

Saberu · 13 Jun 2006 at 11:57

Balddog said:
am i missing something?

How were they chavs? is every young kid a chav now?

Sounds like they were just two kids fishing...its a HUGE leap to make to assume they killed the swan on purpose...Animal cruelty? come on...

Its FAR more likely that they were trying to scare the birds away from their lines...Something I did MANY times as a kid, as did everyone else I knew who fished...Obviously hitting them wasnt the idea, just in their area to scare them off...Have you ever seen a swan, or any bird get tangled in fishing line?

If some chavs were just out to kill some swans, they sure as hell would settle down with their tackle all set up and underneath fishing umbrellas...Theyd just be standing their lobbing rocks..

Sounds to me like two kids accidentally killed a baby swan and then you go apepoo on them..

As much as what you said makes a lot of sense, i'd be inclined to believe that the witnesses on the other side of the lake would be levelled headed enough to decide whether the kids were aiming for the swans or just chasing them away. And if the swans were indeed close enough to the lines to be a threat then surely it isn't hard to make sure you don't hit them when chasing them off with stones?

Spacky · 13 Jun 2006 at 11:58

iCraig said:
Nope, the closest I've seen is people use a maggot catapault to fling rocks ducks at the other side of the lake.

Make hissing noises

Wave your rod/landing net in close proximity to them

Move away from the bank and let them get close, and then walk upto them briskly.

To name a few..

I doubt fisherman would use rocks to scare birds off, because they would know full well that they would scare the fish too. You also run the risk of hitting the bird. These kids may have done, but I doubt very much that any half intelligent angler would.

I love you iCraig

Deep · 13 Jun 2006 at 11:59

Balddog said:
The point is mate...

From the other side of the lake, could they tell if the kids were trying to scare them off or doing it for fun?

This issue isnt about whether or not they killed the swan, we can assume they did...Its about why they did it.

if your asking why the kids did it, then thats a problem, no one knows why kids do what they do. they are immature and stupid to be frank

Luseac · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:00

iCraig said:
I doubt fisherman would use rocks to scare birds off, because they would know full well that they would scare the fish too. You also run the risk of hitting the bird. These kids may have done, but I doubt very much that any half intelligent angler would.

I agree, i'm a fisherman and throwing rocks into the water seems ridiculous. You would not stand a chance of a bite within the next hour.

Spacky · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:00

the_one_deep86 said:
if your asking why the kids did it, then thats a problem, no one knows why kids do what they do. they are immature and stupid to be frank

Get them a 20p beech net...worst they can do is poke each others eye out.

theleg · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:00

iCraig said:
To name a few..

I doubt fisherman would use rocks to scare birds off, because they would know full well that they would scare the fish too. You also run the risk of hitting the bird. These kids may have done, but I doubt very much that any half intelligent angler would.

You must fish a small lake if a catapult can get maggots across it.

but these were kids....and I said I did it when I was a kid, and saw other kids doing it...

Im sure very few adults would do it...but kids do...You can accept this right?

theleg · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:03

Saberu said:
As much as what you said makes a lot of sense, i'd be inclined to believe that the witnesses on the other side of the lake would be levelled headed enough to decide whether the kids were aiming for the swans or just chasing them away. And if the swans were indeed close enough to the lines to be a threat then surely it isn't hard to make sure you don't hit them when chasing them off with stones?

Really? Level headed like the people in this thread who are screaming for the blood of two kids?

Its obviously enough that they killed a baby swan, regardless of the actual circumstances...Why not just smash their heads in with rocks..that will teach them.

All im saying mate, is that given the level of uncertainty, I dont think taking that course of action was just.

theleg · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:04

the_one_deep86 said:
if your asking why the kids did it, then thats a problem, no one knows why kids do what they do. they are immature and stupid to be frank

Immature and stupid...thats ok...but is it reason enough to smash up all their stuff?

Spacky · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:05

I thought you were pro stoning birds and now you defend the kids but accept what they did was wrong?

Balddog said:
Birds do not stay in one place....Every fishing lake or river in the entire country has birds nesting on it.. They tend to swim and fly around a bit...You know, like birds do....

oh and fish ...you see.. fish... they swim and splashes, like urm stones make them swim away...like fish do.

I suppose its like a cat in your garden poohing on your nice lawn, do you stone it or clap your hands?

iCraig · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:10

Balddog said:
You must fish a small lake if a catapult can get maggots across it.

I said they were flinging rocks with the catapault. It's meant to be used to spray maggots across your swim. But stick a rock in the pouch and it would fling it just like a normal catapault.

theleg · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:13

Spacky said:
I thought you were pro stoning birds and now you defend the kids but accept what they did was wrong?

oh and fish ...you see.. fish... they swim and splashes, like urm stones make them swim away...like fish do.

I suppose its like a cat in your garden poohing on your nice lawn, do you stone it or clap your hands?

What? Pro stoning birds? Where the hell do you get this stuff? Ive never said that hitting birds with rocks is ok...Throwing stones in the general area to scare them off...Its a bit silly but they are kids..and its a far cry from throwing them with the intention of killing the swans..

You scare the birds off before they get to your area..

Noise doesnt scare off swans that are used to humans unless its very close...You can shout at them till the cows come home and they wont move.

theleg · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:14

iCraig said:
I said they were flinging rocks with the catapault. It's meant to be used to spray maggots across your swim. But stick a rock in the pouch and it would fling it just like a normal catapault.

Sorry I misread that..

but surely that backs me up? you have seen it happen....firing stones at birds is even worse than throwing....it happens...

iCraig · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:16

Balddog said:
Sorry I misread that..

but surely that backs me up? you have seen it happen....firing stones at birds is even worse than throwing....it happens...

It wasn't to try and scare them from their swim, is was to try and hit them. Especially how they giggled like monkeys when one of their rocks came extremely close to a little duckling.

I don't need to inform you that they were quickly removed by the baliff.

Spacky · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:17

I thought we were talking about the ethics of it and not whether it happened? :confused:

Clearly time for me to get lunch.

mmmm nice Fish Swandwich for lunch

theleg · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:18

iCraig said:
It wasn't to try and scare them from their swim, is was to try and hit them. Especially how they giggled like monkeys when one of their rocks came extremely close to a little duckling.

I don't need to inform you that they were quickly removed by the baliff.

Ah well in that case, id support the actions the OP took...and probably even more.

theleg · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:19

Spacky said:
I thought we were talking about the ethics of it and not whether it happened?

Clearly time for me to get lunch.

mmmm nice Fish Swandwich for lunch

We are arguing about whether it was possible the kids killed the swan by accident.

Deep · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:19

Balddog said:
Immature and stupid...thats ok...but is it reason enough to smash up all their stuff?

unforunately, what they did is a not at all significant in the eyes of the police so they wont do anything (and this is not a slate against the police force as i am very happy with the service they provide... usually) so the vigilante actions i believe where needed, its the only way they will learn.

well a smack would hopefully help them learn but you cant get everything

theleg · 13 Jun 2006 at 12:26

the_one_deep86 said:
unforunately, what they did is a not at all significant in the eyes of the police so they wont do anything (and this is not a slate against the police force as i am very happy with the service they provide... usually) so the vigilante actions i believe where needed, its the only way they will learn.

well a smack would hopefully help them learn but you cant get everything

I disagree....the police will take action if they find out some youths are deliberately out killing swans...

This will make them learn? If they are chavs what do you think theyre gonna do now all their stuff is smashed? Theyre gonna either nick someone elses or theyre gonna do even worse stuff just because they cant fish anymore..

If they were innocent kids then they are probably terrified and id be expecting their parents to call the police about the thread starter.