Perhaps that might why it might be a good idea not to become totally addicted to, and dependent on, a recreational narcotic.
A drug called 'monkey dust' which causes people to eat faces and jump from buildings is spreading in
- Thread starter Minusorange
- Start date
Perhaps that might why it might be a good idea not to become totally addicted to, and dependent on, a recreational narcotic.
Yes.
It's not common to test for spice for most illegal drugs tests. And it certainly was even less common before it became mainstream due to mainstream media coverage - anyone remember those massive campaigns it was in the spotlight for at least a several weeks on and off. There's no THC in spice I'm not saying this is the only cause of people using spice. I'm saying it is the cause of some people who were only cannabis users to start using spice if they were being tested for THC or other more common drugs.
Well this is obviously true. But personally, I like to keep it civil and try to stick to the subject and explain my thoughts as rationally as possible, especially pressing issues such as drugs and the ever increasing violence around it. I think calling people idiots just makes things worse and sets a bad example, especially in a forum which I think is meant for civilised discussion.
Don
Haha that makes no sense though.
Spice isnt like methadone for heroin users.
If they're switching to spice cause they can't smoke weed for a few weeks then they've got far bigger problems because they just want to be off thier face. They aren't addicted to weed.
Also at that point in guessing this isn't a routine drug test but a targeted one because they've been trying up to work high or something.
I know, I didn't say it was, in fact I agreed with your statement! I'm just saying it's a bit sad just calling people idiots because you cant blame them, subjects such as Drugs have been permeated by some of the largest propaganda campaigns in the history of propaganda campaigns and most people's understandings of drugs are the sum of propaganda.
Don
Really? If people think Spice is the solution to their weed habit potentially being detected then they are idiots and the very reason that most drugs are illegal - to protect “vulnerable” people.
I don't know why you're so fixated on spice. I mentioned it in ONE sentence when i was trying to explain that laws on cannabis may have caused some people out there to switch to spice.
I don't know what you're trying to say here, do you believe that no one on the world has ever decided to start smoking spice because they had a THC test coming up and they wanted to evade it?
I very much disagree that drugs are illegal to protect vulnerable people.
In fact it's the complete opposite. The illegality of drugs is what promotes the exploitation of these vulnerable people by drugs gangs wanting to capitalise from said vulnerable people.
Don
Indeed there’s a good argument that drugs should be made legal, I would agree with you that those who are responsible should be allowed to use them but those who aren’t capable of such rational decisions should just be left to the consequences of their actions.
Soldato
All these new drugs are pretty crazy. What ever happened to smoking weed in a field?
Some of the videos of people on spice are crazy. Why would you want to do that?
Some of the videos of people on spice are crazy. Why would you want to do that?
Man of Honour
It's not a perfect situation by any means but on the flip side of it, would you want to be the person signing off the guy who just failed said test to go and operate heavy machinery? I certainly wouldn't want to be the person signing off on that risk. In the absence of a test that can demonstrate use at work, use in general in the next best thing we have available and when it comes to the potential for people to be injured or killed, it'd be a brave manager to give that the all clear. Easiest solution is for people who want to take drugs to find employment in places that don't restrict employment with regards drug takers
(As an aside, I believe our D&A policy also requires people to declare prescription drugs/medications that may impair suitability to work, albeit you'd just be put on some sort of restricted duty rather than sacked!)
I wouldn't be using a test that I know is wildly inaccurate for the stated purpose. Nor would I be lying about the purpose of it, which is what is being done when it's claimed as a test of competence to operate heavy machinery because it's nothing of the sort. It's not fit for purpose.
If the stated goal is to sack people for using illegal drugs outside of work even when it has no effect on their work, that would be honest. Ethically debateable, but honest.
Answer the obvious question then, which test would you be using to minimise risk of having someone operating heavy machinery under the influence of drugs if the one currently used is not suitable? If you fancy you could also answer the first question, given the currently available tests, would you sign off that someone failing that test was suitable to go on and operate heavy machinery?
Not testing isn't a valid choice, you'd probably be shown the door quicker than the guy failing the test if you seriously suggested that in industry.
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Used to. Funny how priorities can shift like that.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ite-breaking-zero-tolerance-drugs-policy.html
Random drugs testing is utterly pointless as a means of improving safety.
The person high on GHB will pass the test with flying colours because it doesn't test for GHB (and a million other drugs).
The person who stayed up all night playing WOW and is now operating the machine half asleep will pass the test with flying colours.
The person who smoked a joint a week ago but who operates the machinery with the utmost care will fail the test.
It is just absurd to spend resources on random drug testing when it is far more cost effective to monitor performance in other ways which will pick up impairments due to any cause such as sleep deprivation. Testing for nanogram level concentrations of drugs just serves to throw away good employees who use drugs outside of work. It might be different if the cut off point was actually drug levels that have been empirically shown to impair performance rather than levels that you would get for eating a bagel with poppy seeds in it.
Soldato
Spice is incredibly addictive. I went to a conference and a former heroin addict was speaking. He said that he was given a roll up laced with spice in prison and became immediately hooked. He got into major debts in prison which led to him being beaten up on several occasions. At some point he overdosed and went to hospital. He said he was lying in bed, tubes coming out of everywhere, and the only thing he could think was where he would get his next hit from. He said he never felt like that on heroin, even when he was trying to come off it. Awful stuff.
Man of Honour
If I was required to devise a test of a person's ability to operate heavy machinery, I would devise a test of a person's ability to operate heavy machinery. Probably by simulation. If a direct test was impractical, I would test co-ordination, understanding of the processes involved, concentration, motor control, whatever was relevant.
Current "drug" testing generates far too many false positives and false negatives to be fit for that purpose. The false positives make it unjust and the false negatives make it unsafe. It is not in any meaningful way a test to minimise the risk of having someone operating heavy machinery while not competent to do so to an adequate standard. People who are completely capable will fail because the test will detect drug use days, weeks or even months after any effect from the drug. False positive. People who are not completely capable due to something else (e.g. fatigue, depression, stress, a drug not detected by the test, whatever) will pass. False negative. The test is unfit for purpose and arguably worse than useless as a result.
In short, to test something I would test that thing. I wouldn't test something completely different and pretend it was the same.
Soldato
