A fallen city..

Hydrogen is more abundant than natural gas. Coal, oil and Gas are massive hydrocarbon sinks which can be readily interconverted into any form of fuel we desire through FT or other syngas based routes we wish.

Most hydrogen is burnt as part of the cracking/reforming of gas and oil production. They utilise it as a free source of heat and feed stock for the syngas.

The problem with electric cars is the technology is not being so widely developed beyond a lithium based technology that it will run out of lithium should be required to replace millions of cars each requiring X00's if not X000's of batteries. Bolivia is one of the major current known sources of lithium readily accessible. Rare earth metals utilised in increasing battery performance will also be in higher and higher demand. Mass production of things does not always make them cheaper if they are already in short supply.

Nuclear waste from your nuclear reactors. Energy efficiency (Transfer of far more energy than the current national grid handles orders of magnitude greater in fact!), cost of production (Where to store waste + how long + security + reactors costs), current global increase in demand for nuclear fuel and current nuclear fuel sources. If you look into these you will relise that the nuclear option looks nice at current consumption levels, but as most modern nations are also proposing to start utilising these resources the cost and availability will rapidly change and not in our favour.

Electric cars in my view are a stepping stone to hybrid electric - fuel cell vehicles. Soon you will find more and more home power fuel cells which efficiently convert mains gas to electricity + heat for your home.

Hydrogen can be photocatalytically generated with solar energy. No its not at comercial levels yet, but in 20 years or so it might be.

Hydrogen storage is possible in LPG style tanks within cars and could easily filled in the same fashion. This is not such an impossible task as we do regularly fill vehicles with flammable gases and liquids already on a large scale. They are installing Hydrogen refilling stations at petrol tanks along the M4 as a trial basis to encourage the technological take up and accessibility.

I never suggested liquid storage, but there is potential for metal hydride storage of hydrogen, or in combination of CO2 we could actually produce hydrogen photcatalytically from water, add in a source of CO2 (say a power plant exhaust gases) and then produce hydrocarbons of our choice. These can then be broken down on a pre-catalyst to the fuel cell (we already have fuel cells running off methanol which we could source from biomass) and now we have a liquid based fuel.

There are lots of alternatives and it should not be so easily dismissed.
 
Wiki states currently have enough lithium assuming perfect extraction and singular use to be automotive vehicles of 2 billion vehicles. Currently only 23% of lithium produced is utilised by batteries. Lets double this to be fair in the future it will be important to us on the whole.

Now we have enough lithium left for 1 billion small (nissan leaf) sized electric cars. Currently there are 600 million vehicles currently in use around the world (wiki), 800 million passenger and light trucks. We produce roughly 50 million new passenger vehicles every year.

We would need to vastly improve the efficiency of lithium extraction, transportation and recycling. The more advance batteries will most likely end up utilised rare earth metal polymers and thus making the recycling process complicated and expensive.

This is simply to reiterate my point things are not always as clear cut as they first appear.

On the fossil fuel issue, we have roughly speaking reserves of Coal ten times greater than Oil which is ten times greater than Gas. It would be more expensive and less energy efficient, but we can use fossil fuels for a fair while longer yet.
 
Where does the energy come from to generate hydrogen? And how much of it actually ends up at the electric motor? Far less than with a pure electric vehicle, which is the point I'm making.

The energy for an electric vehicle currently comes from mostly fossil fuels, yes. But that doesn't mean that EV's shouldn't be the future. Having a 100% electrical chain from generation to use is a good start to breaking our dependency on fossil fuels. Of course generation needs to be sorted out too.

With hydrogen you still need vast amounts of energy to generate, store and use the hydrogen, even if you extract it from a fossil fuel. The link above shows that less than a quarter of this ends up at the motor. Whether it's abundant is irrelevant if it's useless as an energy storage medium and expensive to handle/manufacture.

Fair points, I suppose that with any infant technology there are a lot of kinks to be worked out. Part of the problem(s) with hydrogen are indeed the use of fossil fuels and the fact that many of the companies promoting their hydrogen fuels are still extracting the hydrogen in the cheapest possible way (i.e. from fossil fuels) which does not really solve the initial problem.

The reason I'm more in favour of hydrogen fuelled cars is that they are more in-line with the way we use cars today. Refuelling is done in a very similar way and the distance you can travel between refuelling is generally greater than you can with a 'pure' electric car. I know that I would, personally, be very resistant to switching to an electric vehicle as they currently not for ecological reasons, but because of the time they take to get refuelled (up to 16 hours for some!). I imagine there are many others who take this standpoint as well.

But again, electric vehicles are also an infant technology with many kinks to be worked out. It would seem though, that for the kinks in both technologies to be worked out we need a sea change in the way we generate and develop energy on a commercial scale. A battery of wind turbines off the coast and the odd nuclear reactor are nowhere near substantial enough to meet the energy needs of the motoring public, let alone the nation's residences and businesses.

And OP: photos are awesome, it's incredible how such a once prosperous city can fall into such terminal decline in the space of a century.
 
Epic photos. Would make a great Airsoft site :cool: ....


Got to love the top comment on it though: The entire series of photos could be called, “Aftermath of workers’ unions.”
 
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