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A historic guilty thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Orionaut, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. peterwalkley


    Joined: Feb 23, 2009

    Posts: 3,538

    Location: South Wirral

    Can't change the past. Question is what are we doing today that 10 generations from now we'll be slated for ?
  2. Gray2233


    Joined: Oct 25, 2010

    Posts: 2,760

    If Twitter still exists we'll probably have people going back to see what someones great, great, great, great + grandparents might have said in order to cancel them.
  3. Beerbaron


    Joined: Feb 28, 2006

    Posts: 5,926

    Location: Beds

    Cant change the past, we can only learn from it.

    Maybe we are doing things now which might be deemed as racist in many years time.
  4. plasmahal


    Joined: Feb 5, 2006

    Posts: 2,840

    Where do you draw the line? How far do you go back?

    As already mentioned, britons were subjugated many times, where is the outrage at that.
  5. 200sols


    Joined: Jan 14, 2018

    Posts: 4,440

    Location: Hampshire

    Errr nobody cares about white people..
  6. Orionaut


    Joined: Aug 2, 2012

    Posts: 7,815

    The need to create a global scale Navy was initially driven by the fact that north African raiders (Muslims, not Blacks as such) were routinely taking huge numbers of people from England/Britain, particularly Cornwall.

    Slave raiding, and the response to it, didn't just drive Britain to become global Naval superpower,. It drive us right into the industrial revolution too!
  7. adolf hamster


    Joined: Oct 18, 2012

    Posts: 7,257

    paying for the sins of our fathers is a dangerous road.

    there's no limit to how far back you go with it, and eventually everyone's ancestors were a dick to someone else's ancestors at some point in human history.

    i'm sure that like any other citizen of the uk at some point some of my ancestors would have profited either directly or indirectly from slavery but likewise i'm sure that their ancestors at some point were slaves themselves.

    yes we should remember history in both its glory and gore, but we should only do so as a learning experience so that the future will be better than the past.
  8. a1ex2001


    Joined: Mar 14, 2005

    Posts: 12,903

    Location: Here and There...

    I agree with this we shouldn’t be apologising for our fore fathers as we are not them so it is just an empty meaningless collection of words. But I do agree we should consider which historic figures we celebrate, the statue in Bristol is a clear case of a man who profited massively from the slave trade and we shouldn’t celebrate that that his blood money made the city pretty. Some of the other cases are getting very tenuous though, the Baden Powell statue in Bournemouth for example doesn’t seem to have much in the way of a racist link beyond some I’ll advised praise of Hitler before the war and some actions in the Boer war that were standard military practice for 1000’s of years.
  9. Diddums


    Joined: Oct 24, 2012

    Posts: 19,524

    Location: London

    It seems that everyone's gotten to the point of running out of stuff to be offended by in our current generation, that they're now looking at previous generations for stuff to get offended by.

    Two thoughts:

    If all bad deeds from our past are erased, how are we going to learn from it?

    And if Twitter didn't exist, how much of this would be happening?

    There's no denying that some of our ancestors and forefathers did horrible, awful things. As a South African, I have seen it first hand. The way black people were treated was abhorrent, but it wasn't me who did it. It wasn't anyone on this forum it was people from many, many years ago. Sure, if you find someone trading slaves or whatever now then by all means drag them over the coals for it but can everyone stop pick'n'mixing crap from all walks of life, days gone past, good people, bad people, all to suit their agenda?

    That'd be great, thanks.
  10. Raz


    Joined: Sep 18, 2003

    Posts: 4,507

    Location: Helix Nebula

    Racist post. We don't live in a black and white world.

  11. Hagar


    Joined: Mar 1, 2010

    Posts: 8,531

    Location: Prev. Nkata Cheshire

    My ancestors built ships in Maryport from late 1700's until steamships became common.The river was not wide enough to launch them.

    Like others, a couple of generations later all the money was gone. They were called Gentlemen of independant means in the census, I believe.
  12. adolf hamster


    Joined: Oct 18, 2012

    Posts: 7,257

    statues are a tricky one, someone at some point considered their deeds worthy of a monument, and whilst they might not stand up to modern scrutiny that makes them no less a key character.

    some of history's most impressive monuments were built in some cases quite literally by slave labour, should we tear down the Colosseum? the pyramids? or should we accept them as the products of their time that they are.
  13. Quartz


    Joined: Apr 1, 2014

    Posts: 10,913

    Location: Aberdeen

    Everyone has a slave-owner and even a slaver in their ancestry. That's whites, blacks, yellows, olives, reds, everyone.
  14. Tom_ed1987

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Mar 1, 2004

    Posts: 1,518

    Location: Warwickshire

    We should all be campaigning for every single ornate facade of every Victorian building in London & elsewhere to be concreted over, for it was all created off wealth generated by the exploitation of 'blacks', is an ongoing celebration of such, & thus deeply offensive. Don't agree? Racist...
  15. Maccy


    Joined: Nov 23, 2004

    Posts: 36,630

    Location: Herts

    Moving this to GD as the comments already show that it's not SC worthy.

    However back on topic, it's a sad time we're in currently but I would be a touch disappointed to learn if my family were involved in the slave trade. Having said that, I realise that times are much different now compared to X hundred years ago when it was considered more acceptable.
  16. fez


    Joined: Aug 22, 2008

    Posts: 13,802

    Location: Sidcup

    Thats far too sensible. We need to create a very complicated "guilt" chart that shows how each country has been nasty to each other and then we need to break that down even more to show how different groups within each country have been nasty to each other and then we can all decide who to be sorry to for people we never met or had anything to do with. Then that will fix everything wrong in the current world.

    The thing that baffles me most is that the ideal is that people see no colour or race and no one treats anyone differently and yet we are currently pushing an agenda that puts white and black people into distinct groups and literally reduces them to a group identity.
  17. sigma


    Joined: Nov 13, 2006

    Posts: 17,973

    Ironically a lot of people are proud of positive (in their mind at least) historical things that had nothing to do with them.
  18. CosmicClown


    Joined: Sep 22, 2012

    Posts: 648

  19. Junglist


    Joined: Jun 11, 2015

    Posts: 5,576

    Location: Bristol

    Agreed. Before belonging to any 'group' be it black, British or Bristolian, I am myself before all of that and most importantly. What other black, British or Bristolian people do, both good or bad, is not exactly a representation of myself.

    When has anyone ever claimed that? I thought it was quite common knowledge that other cultures enslaved people from the U.K, or whatever it was called at the time. I know that in particular the Vikings made a good living from it
  20. gailjon


    Joined: Nov 10, 2015

    Posts: 441

    Well said, and probably what the majority of the population feel like as well.

    Apologising for something that you had nothing to do with is an empty gesture that does nothing to help any situation.