Abu Dhabi Grand Prix 2010, Yas Island Marina Circuit - Race 19/19

russ0r said:
You're wrong about this. I'm not a Button fanboy, but...
He's excellent on the brakes, he knows how to pressurise the driver in front and he can drive under pressure too. All of these mean he can overtake.
Look at someone like Vettel who hits a metaphorical wall as soon as a car is in front of him. Or Massa who just starts making mistakes. They're bad overtakers. Button isn't.

I agree with most of what you say, just not this :p
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Yet Button's overtaken almost nobody all year, frequently getting caught behind guys like Massa and Alonso and being stuck behind even in races the McClaren is clearly faster, I think a few times before the Ferrari's had f-ducts.

I don't think anyone has gained more places than Button without overtaking to be honest, though thats a difficult thing to quantify, if you lead from the start, and win, you won't be overtaking anyone.

utajoker said:
One thing leggard said to annoy me today

Along the lines of
"Once again vetted has put it on pole, that must be 10 time this year, extraordinary!"

Could it be because he has the fastest car by 0.5-1.0 second faster than the rest of the field???????


BBC better not get him back next year.
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Thats less irritating than the sheer shoke and awe with which whoevers the fastest driver on the day tends to do faster laps dozens of times a race due to, you know, less fuel throughout. I think it took him about 14 races before he mentioned its due to less fuel, then later on in the same race was back to being shocked Vettel(at a guess) had managed yet another faster lap.

Hate that guy.
 
sunama said:
The most recent example of overtaking a faster car was against Webber's RBR car at Singapore. Of course, Webber continued to ram Hamilton into retirement, as soon as Hamilton overtook him, but the RBR is a faster car and it shows that Hamilton can do it..
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Thats not over taking a faster car plus you keep saying how crap webber is. Besides hamilton didn't overtake him, he had a go and didn't leave enough room. That's not an overtake. Would that count as an overtake if Alonso has a go at vettel at the end of the start finish straight by passing him by not braking and then crashing?

No it wouldn't.

Well twice this year Alonso has pressurised Hamilton into errors, while hamilton was in a faster car. After all that's using your criteria of what makes a faster car.

Hamilton like the rest doesn't pass a faster car, he passes cars that qualify ahead of him then struggle for pace in comparison for one reason or another. Otherwise when you passed the faster car it would sit on your tail for the rest of the race.
 
I would argue that Hamilton did overtake Webber. He didn't miss the next corner. When he turned in, Webber went for the small gap and a collision resulted. Hamilton out.

As far as I'm concerned he did overtake Webber and was a car length ahead of him.
 
I'd like to see Butty win this with Webby second and Massy third. Hammy, Vetty and Alonsy to punch it out after a first corner mishap. Shuey black flagged for nerfing and Kovy, Glocky and Klieny get points.

I doubt any of that will happen though :p

More like 1 - 2 the Bulls with Alonsy third, maybe if Vetty is ahead of Webby we'll see some team orders.
 
sunama said:
I would argue that Hamilton did overtake Webber. He didn't miss the next corner. When he turned in, Webber went for the small gap and a collision resulted. Hamilton out.

As far as I'm concerned he did overtake Webber and was a car length ahead of him.
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I completely agree that Hamilton is the best overtaker in the business, but that is a shocking example. The only reason he got close to Webber is that he was held up behind a backmarker through the corner, letting Hamilton get a tow.
 
Hamilton drives fast and Button makes excuses for not being fast.
Button has blamed the car setup so many times this season!
(btw I do like Button, the only driver I dislike is Alonso).

Hamilton does some fantastic overtakes, as he takes big risks. These risks result in either an overtake or a crash into the wall.
 
Cybermyk said:
More like 1 - 2 the Bulls with Alonsy third, maybe if Vetty is ahead of Webby we'll see some team orders.
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You think Webby will be able to make his way past Butty, Alonsy and Hammy?

Dude, I think you are asking far too much from a driver of Webber's calibre. Even if he had a 1s/lap advantage (which on this track, his car does not), he would still struggle to get past those 3 World Champions.
 
mglover070588 said:
Hamilton drives fast and Button makes excuses for not being fast.
Button has blamed the car setup so many times this season!
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I don't really hold anything against drivers who complain about the car handling. They are merely frustrated and venting their frustration by saying their car sucks. People shouldn't read too much into this.

Drivers who complain about their is analogous to when footballers swear at others, while on the pitch. They are merely frustrated at the way the game is being played and perhaps not going their way.

mglover070588 said:
(btw I do like Button, the only driver I dislike is Alonso).
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Out of interest, where does this dislike of Alonso stem from?
 
dannyjo22 said:
Not at all, hamilton is as useless as everyone else when the car isn't faster than those around him. Faster cars than him? Remind me again all the times Hamilton has overtaken a car and then the car has sat on his tail because it's faster?

Hamilton showed last year when the car was bad and last race he couldn't do anything when his car wasn't quicker than the car he was chasing.

I agree he's better wheel to wheel than button but only when the car is faster and working well for him. He didn't even ovettake button when button was struggling with tyres a couple of races ago. He just sat there waiting for the stops.
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but hamiltons the master of overtaking because at the start of the season with a stupid speed advantage on the straights the f-duct made it idiotproof :rolleyes:#

oh and lets not forget kers which is pretty much the same thing
 
arknor said:
but hamiltons the master of overtaking because at the start of the season with a stupid speed advantage on the straights the f-duct made it idiotproof :rolleyes:#

oh and lets not forget kers which is pretty much the same thing
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You're ignoring the 2 years prior to kers/F-duct.


That was in his rookie season, passing a driver who I regard as being one of the most naturally gifted drivers ever in F1, who would have won plenty of WDCs at Mclaren if the car was reliable, and LH went past him like he was standing still.

Who would you suggest was better? Apart from Kobayashi, obviously.
 
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Brazil last year alone proves that Button can overtake

Everyone since the start of the season has said that the aero is causing it to be more difficult to overtake this year in general - so majority of gained / lost places will always be due to pit strategy more than anything (and why make your tyres worse by fighting for a position you know you will gain back in the upcoming pit stop)

Hamilton is good at barging past other cars - and thats exactly why he retires from so many races......he may be good to watch, but he also throws away buckets of points a season due to this

Vettel is utter ***** at over taking, as proven many times this season and last
(great at being overtaken though, as per all those poles that didnt result in a race win)
 
Telescopi said:
I'd not be surprised to see hamilton leading into turn 1 with alonso and vettel making contact - could be interesting.
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Don't say that, you're getting me excited!

It could be a fascinating GP. Vettel will not want to yeild 1st but with the straight line speed and the new blown wing on the McLaren I'm not sure how much he is going to be able to do apart from his usual run them off the road tactic.

I'm not honestly sure who i want to win the WDC if it isn't Webber since realistically its unlikely to be Hamilton. I think i'm actually swaying more for Alonso than Vettel.

One thing that did annoy me was that i couldnt get the 5live commentary up on the BBC One HD channel. So it was a choice of better image + Legard or poorer picture and some decent informative commentary.
 
Todge said:
One thing that did annoy me was that i couldnt get the 5live commentary up on the BBC One HD channel. So it was a choice of better image + Legard or poorer picture and some decent informative commentary.
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Last race I couldn't get r5l up on the normal channel either :(.

So much potential how annoyed will we all be, if everyone gets of the line and just has a clean boring race.
 
deko said:
You're ignoring the 2 years prior to kers/F-duct.


That was in his rookie season, passing a driver who I regard as being one of the most naturally gifted drivers ever in F1, who would have won plenty of WDCs at Mclaren if the car was reliable, and LH went past him like he was standing still.

Who would you suggest was better? Apart from Kobayashi, obviously.
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As much as I agree with "Hamilton is by far the best overtaker in F1". Again, that is a bad example. Hamilton was on fresh soft tyres. Kimi was on well-used hard tyres. Simples really.

And RE: Button's banzai session in Brazil '09... he qualified out of position in the WCC car. So, really, what did everyone and Martin Whitmarsh expect? Passing people was like taking candy from a baby.
 
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