Actor

Sythe79 said:
Actor is gender-neutral tho, the same as baker or shoemaker, there's only the assumption that actor meant male by default because the term actress existed and was in common usage.

For the term the greatest actress to be diminished, it would mean you thought in the Venn diagram of the neutral term Actor, actresses somehow fell outside of it. All actors (who by common language we assume are male) are actors, all actresses are actors.

Again, it's not that deep unless you want to make it.
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But it WAS and is considered gendered, bya significant majority of people in common parlance, until recently. Context matters.
 
Firegod said:
Why is it generally accepted that actor covers all genders? What happened to actor and actress? It is something I'm noticing more and more especially on chat shows. Don't we we still have waiter and waitress? Perhaps not.

I'm obviously old, and out of touch, but why the change? I guess I don't understand why we suddenly want to lump everyone together. What is wrong with the individual definition, neither are derogatory or offensive. I honestly don't get it. I mean what happens especially with Fench nouns (le and la)?

Who is making these decisions for us?
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Where is this concern coming from? Have you been called up on it by someone? Has someone told you it's wrong?

Language naturally evolves and changes. Always has and always will.
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
But it WAS and is considered gendered, bya significant majority of people in common parlance, until recently. Context matters.
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So as it happens I might have been right with one of my earlier posts about the history. Essentially in the ancient world all actors were male. The term actress came in to use to recognise those women that had broken through an in to the profession. So whilst I get that it's no longer necessarily harder for a woman to get in to acting (and if you work for Disney it certainly seems to be easier!) it recognises the past struggle.
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
Can you explain, with examples where they have different implications? I don't know what you mean?
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Let’s take a group of 100 individuals. 50 are male, 50 are female. All of them act.

You and I are judging which of them are the best.

If I point to a female and say to you “this person is the best actress in the group” - the only certain meaning of this is that I think this person is the best of the 50 females. It’s up in the air as to where I think she ranks if I include the males.

However, if I point to the same female and say “this is the best actor in the group” - the inference is that I think she is the best out of the whole 100.

Does that make more sense now?

For another example of difference inferences, see the cow/bull/milk example I mentioned above - but I’ll repeat the essence here.

I say to you “this cow doesn’t produce milk” - if I’m referring to a male bull (which is still a cow) then you might think “yes, it’s because it’s male.” But I’m referring to a female cow, you would think “oh, I wonder what is wrong with this cow?”

I hope that makes my point clearer.
 
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Nitefly said:
Let’s take a group of 100 individuals. 50 are male, 50 are female. All of them act.

You and I are judging which of them are the best.

If I point to a female and say to you “this person is the best actress in the group” - the only certain meaning of this is that I think this person is the best of the 50 females. It’s up in the air as to where I think she ranks if I include the males.

However, if I point to the same female and say “this is the best actor in the group” - the inference is that I think she is the best out of the whole 100.

Does that make more sense now?

For another example of difference inferences of using different words that could be applicable, see the cow/bull/milk example I mentioned above - but I’ll repeat the essence here.

I say to you “this cow doesn’t produce milk” - if I’m referring to a male bull (which is still a cow) then you might think “yes, it’s because it’s male.” But I’m referring to a female cow, you would think “oh, I wonder what is wrong with this cow?”

I hope that makes my point clearer.
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You'd be incorrect in your last point about cows btw...the correct parlance would be "this cattle doesn't produce milk". A bull is not a cow.
 
Malt_Vinegar said:
But it WAS and is considered gendered, bya significant majority of people in common parlance, until recently. Context matters.
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Only by context, a troupe of actors has always included both the male and female cast, it's only at the individual level actor has defaulted to male traditionally and then only because there was a term specifically for females, there is no male only term for an actor.
 
Wiĺl the conversation get onto female stud horses next? I prefer actress to actor for female thespians.
 
Dis86 said:
Might just save your bacon one day! Or beef...save your beef?
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Saved my lamb shank!

Or, not saved my lamb shank… I asked my wife to fact check this whilst I was posting. We’ve now had a spat: I’ve had a huff at her for getting it wrong and apparently I didn’t ask the right question (secretly, I think she’s right).

Sunday lunch is now up in the air.
 
Actors act : Male actors are called actors female actors are called actresses.
I would never change my option or language and that would highlight me as someone of an older generation.

In 50 years time everyone will be an actor and no one will care. Another act of erosion and change to language.

The Chinese opinion is all that matters as they'll be dictating culture for the future anyway. :p
 
Efour said:
Actors act : Male actors are called actors female actors are called actresses.
I would never change my option or language and that would highlight me as someone of an older generation.

In 50 years time everyone will be an actor and no one will care. Another act of erosion and change to language.

The Chinese opinion is all that matters as they'll be dictating culture for the future anyway. :p
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And there is no Chinese word for cattle, 1 cow, 2 cow, 10 cow, a bunch of cow, cow meat. It's all cow, there is no cattle, bovine or beef. Yes, I left out the letter S on purpose.
 
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Saves a whole load of extra S's

Genius

Damn i genuinely didn't know in Feb 24 it was made genderless.
What a weird political move.
 
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Scam said:
I don't think @Nitefly cares what they're called. He's just pointing out that nowadays the term "actress" is a smaller subset of "actor".
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Yes, that’s right, with regards to both (i) me not having any strong views and (ii) what I have intended to point out.
 
I think how actor is taken is dependent on the context.

Everyone who acts in a film is an actor as the job is Acting* (as in the cast are all actors), but it's broken down a bit for certain things so you then end up with actors and actresses as the two primary subgroups (then it breaks down even more into things like leading, supporting, stunt etc).

I'm honestly finding it hard to understand why anyone would possibly get upset about it.


*I don't think i've ever heard of actressing.
 
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