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AiO Water Cooling

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by Thermaltake868, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Thermaltake868

    Associate

    Joined: Nov 19, 2018

    Posts: 17

    Hi I was planning to install AiO water cooling system in my PC, and one paticulare brand got my eye it was SilentiumPC Navis 240. So I was searching on google for reviews and all that but I need some feedback from actual users or someone who test it, and ask if it's any good, and is there maybe some better cooling solution that you suggest for the same price as Navis 240. Thanks!
     
  2. LuckyBenski

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Dec 28, 2017

    Posts: 1,855

    Location: London

    Have you tried searching the forum for reviews of this cooler, or comparisons in the same budget?
     
  3. Thermaltake868

    Associate

    Joined: Nov 19, 2018

    Posts: 17

    I did, and found nothing on Navis 240.
     
  4. Ross Thomson

    Gangster

    Joined: Nov 7, 2017

    Posts: 359

    that should give you all the information you need
     
  5. doyll

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 1, 2011

    Posts: 7,083

    My guess it it's made by CoolIT, at least the pump looks like CoolIT pump.

    A good air cooler in a case setup to flow cool air as needed to CPU and GPU coolers is more dependable, quieter and lasts many times longer than a CLC will.
     
  6. Thermaltake868

    Associate

    Joined: Nov 19, 2018

    Posts: 17

    In that case, If I get you correctly, you don't suggest me to buy that water cooler ?
     
  7. Ross Thomson

    Gangster

    Joined: Nov 7, 2017

    Posts: 359

    He’ll suggest you don’t buy any aio so best just to ignore him. I Personally wouldn’t buy that model.
     
  8. doyll

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 1, 2011

    Posts: 7,083

    There are basically 3 kinds of water cooling; custom loop, AIO that are not CLC and AIO that are CLC. CLC is a sub-group of AIO coolers. CLCs are all factory sealed with no provision to service and repair. The only thing you change is their fans. Asetek has the US patent on the concept of pump on waterblock in sealed loop system, so any company selling CLCs with pump on waterblock has had Asetek make it for them or is paying royalties to Asetek to be allowed to make their CLC. They all have aluminum radiators, no fittings, no fill port and a pump with about the same rate of flow as a healthy adult can pee after a few pints (up to 40-63L/h) .. by comparison arguable the most popular custom loop pump the D5 flows up to 1500L/h. Enermax Liqtech TR4 pump is rated 450L/h, but Enermax has had serious problems with some owners having had 2 units replaced because of pump problems .. so not a good unit to be considering either.

    AIOs that are not CLC are ones like Swiftech H series which they make and sell .. or ones made by Alphacool makes like their own Eisbaer, Fractal Design Celcius and be quiet! Silent Loop. I won't buy Alphacool brand because of reports by owners with defective product who were having serious problems with Alphacool getting problem resolved. Maybe they have got better, I don't know. I will buy Silent Loop because I know they have good customer support if I need it. Same with Fractal Design.

    As for air cooling, a good air cooler in a system with case airflow setup to match CPU and GPU air cooler airflow needs will run cool and quiet with same loads as CLCs can cool .. and do it with virtually no potential problems or failures and generally at much lower prices. They only thing that can fail in an air cooled system is fans .. easily replaced at low cost if one ever does fail .. and system is usable even with a fan not working or any fan can be used until new fan is in hand. With a CLC if it fails it's almost always the pump and you have no cooling until a new cooler is installed, so no computer to use and have to buy a new cooler costing several times more than a fan .. and that is if you have a fan go bad. I haven't had a fan fail me in .. I can't remember the last time I had a fan go bad .. it's been at least 10 years and I have 5 systems running here and have built hundreds.

    CLCs cooling low wattage will last several years, but I have followed up talking to users who overclock to high wattage / heat and their is a direct correlation of CLC cooing high wattage having much shorter life than ones in low wattage use. CLC users with extreme overclocks often have problems after 1.5-2 years of use .. and when they change to a top tier air cooler end up with same temps and lower noise levels.

    Using CLC or air cooling is your choice. What I've posted is in the hopes you will learn and understand why many of us will not use CLCs .. and also how many who started out using CLC changed to air cooling and are amazed at how much quieter their systems are .. at same and often lower temps.
     
  9. docsonic

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Aug 26, 2010

    Posts: 1,357

    That's helpful info thanks. I'm considering getting the bequiet 360 while its on offer to go into my Lian LI O11 Air. I've always used air-coolers & fancy a change & this case can take 360 rads in multiple locations.
     
  10. doyll

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 1, 2011

    Posts: 7,083

    With multiple large rads, good fans, waterblocks and pump you can probably build a quieter system then you can get on air, but it will cost 5-10 times as much money. Don't get me wrong, I did custom loops for many years .. for years before good air cooling was available. Custom H2O cooling is like building custom cars, custom toys of any discription, it take lots of money and time and for those who enjoy doing that sort of thing (and I'm one of them) we will continue to do them. But most of us don't fool ourselves into thinking it's even remotely cost effective. I can go out and by a perfect custom car for much less then it can be built for and custom H2O cooling is no different. Been there, done that, got that t-shirt and hat. ;)
     
  11. Thermaltake868

    Associate

    Joined: Nov 19, 2018

    Posts: 17

    Thanks for the explanation. I appriciate it.

    So If I get it correct SilentiumPC Navis have CLC type, and Silent loop and Fractal have Swiftech H series ? And you suggest me that if I'm every going to buy AiO to buy Fractal or Silent loop ?


    If I may ask you when you said that you are building custom loops for many years. Is it correct that liquid inside bottle (talking about Ekoolant) if opened vaporize slowly or thats not true ? I have some people told me that and I don't trust them so I was wondering.
     
  12. Ross Thomson

    Gangster

    Joined: Nov 7, 2017

    Posts: 359

    ignore the nonsense acronyms. you either have a custom loop or an AIO (this CLC/AIO is just nonsense). The bequiet AIO is a good unit when the pump isn't making noise.
     
  13. doyll

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 1, 2011

    Posts: 7,083

    I suggest not getting a CLC but an AIO like Swiftech H series, be quiet! Silent Loop series or Fractal Design Kelvin series, not that I said before. The Kelvin is copper radiator and made by Alphacool. I don't know who make Celcius for Fractal Design, but it hasaluminum radiator.

    Ignore posts by peeps who doesn't seem to have a clue as to what AIO and CLC actually are .. just like most buyers out there don't know the differences.

    There are all kinds of people out there who make statements with no knowledge to back them up, even some supposed experts. Good example is UK Gaming Computers article about open loop versus closed loop.
    The real definition of open loop and closed loop are;
    Open Loop = a liquid loop with that is not a sealed loop, one that is open to the air at it's highest point to keep liquid from leaking out.
    Closed Loop = a liquid loop that is sealed with a plug or factory sealed so the liquid cannot leak out of it.​
    The above is definition that has been around for more years than AIO, LCLC, CLC etc. But now we have CLC with many thinking it's means 'closed loop' and a custom loop somehow is an 'open loop' .. when the reality is both are closed loop cooling systems with LCLC / CLC being factory sealed with no way to add coolant or change components. I use the term CLC because it is what everyone is familiar with, even though it is incorrect.

    Here is link to another writeup about CLCs that author also differentiates between AIO and CLC
    https://www.overclock.net/forum/61-...y-you-should-probably-not-buy-clc-cooler.html

    At the end of the day the real issue is 'water cooling' with a custom loop is a totally different and much higher tech cooling system then these cheap CLCs that cost the same or less than just a good pump with no reservoir or fittings cost .. Custom loop pumps all flow many times more coolant than CLCs do.

    CLC mass sales are based on the idea that 'water cooling' is the key point. But their advertising glosses over things like pump flow rate and head .. so much so it is almost impossible to find any data showing the flow rate and heat of Asetek pumps or any of the other CLC pumps. They know their product is not much good and depend on advertising hype to suckker buyers in. They are more Carnie Barkers than anything else .. an the ill-informed flock into buy the because they say it's 'water cooling'.

    If we stop and think for a minute here, how do you think a £80-100 CLC performance and longevity compares to the £500-1000 worth of components used in a good custom loop? Sure, there is probably a lot of markup in the components so price is probably much higher than it needs to be, but the pricing of CLCs is also artificially higher than need be.

    I don't know if you remember, but when Corsair first came out with their H100 there were literally hundreds and hundreds of problems .. so many that for well over a year we had factory refurbished H100 cooler selling for about half their new price .. but with 90 day warranty until the government forced them to give a longer warranty. While not as many problems, we have seen similar releases where there were all lots of problems with 1st and sometimes 2nd and even 3rd release of these before they managed to get them working well enough to last a couple of years.

    I advise not buying any product that does not have several reviews by credible review sites .. and also keep in mind review sites rarely talk down a product, because they depend on companies giving them samples to do their testing on, and then they usually sell on those samples to make a little money for the time they spend doing the review. If they put down a product the company will most likely not give them any more samples .. and no samples means they won't have anything to review .. so the obvious solution is to not put down a product in their reviews.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  14. Thermaltake868

    Associate

    Joined: Nov 19, 2018

    Posts: 17

    Thanks for the info.

    I had a lot of problems with NZXT Kraken AiO almost every 2nd water cooling went dead after few months, I cross them instantly not to buy them ever.

    I will get soon SilentiumPC AiO with RGB demo sample and test it, hopefully it's OK and maybe I will get one free of charge :D if I will thats better than FSP Windale 6 that I have right now. I mean one fan less in my case that means 1 less dust colletor and a lot of more space to have nice air flow inside, I have filters but I am trying to minimize fans inside of case, I already have 4 of them, 120 and 140mm. Windale 6 is huge, and it's hard to maneuver whatever you do inside of case.

    P.S
    Silent loop only got 3 year warranty thats very little.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
  15. doyll

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 1, 2011

    Posts: 7,083

    I think some of the problems CLC users have are their lack of knowledge about water cooling loops. Biggest are keeping pump lower than radiator inlet/outlet and running system before installing moving system around to work air out of pump and into radiator .. and if needed doing it again once installed to get air bubbles in the pump.

    Demo samples are nice. That's what I use most of the time. :D

    FSP Windale 6 is pretty good little cooler.

    3 year warranty is not bad. I see many of the 5 year warranty CLCs failing in 1-2 years of high heat cooling use, even more before 3 years are up. Many of of these users don't even bother using their 5 year warranty because they don't want to deal with all the hassle involved to get warranty replacement .. which is what the companies' gamble on. :p Warranty does not mean product will last longer. They are like insurance companies who depend on many customers giving up on getting replacement because of the hassles involved. I got my Silent Loop 280mm in late June 2016 and it is working flawlessly. I did top up coolant after about 8 months and flushed system, opened up and looked at waterblock, and refilled with new coolant last spring. The copper micro-fins in waterblock had dulled in color a little but coolant was clear so no real issues. Maybe I should have changed coolant sooner. It's on i7 920 @ 4.3GHz so lots of heat there when CPU is working hard.

    PS: Noticed your user name. Do you use many Tt products?
    If you are interested, here's link to some of my tutorials & guides. Please drop me a PM.
    https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...s-better-cooling-airflow-cooler-fan-data.html
     
  16. Thermaltake868

    Associate

    Joined: Nov 19, 2018

    Posts: 17

    Hah good little :D 6 heatpipes it's huge in my CM 690 Advanced X2 case :D

    I vote for longer warranty always.
    I know it doesn't mean that product will last longer of course but you know, you are safer if it dies under warranty, and you are not forced to spend money on new one, because you need your PC to be up and running.

    I don't use anything from Tt products, I had Tt case few years back Xaser III, it was heavy as f.... :D 8kg empty, dope for some server stuff with that heavy steel doors and all that, but I didn't find any use from it, and sold it.
     
  17. cms239

    Hitman

    Joined: Jul 7, 2008

    Posts: 505

    Interesting read. I also read the other article you linked which again is informative.

    He also mentioned EK kits

    What is confusing is the terminology. Clc vs aio. Overclockers list aio kits but they are actually clc kits. Confusing for buyers
     
  18. doyll

    Soldato

    Joined: Jul 1, 2011

    Posts: 7,083

    Hah, huge you say. :D Yeah, it's not small but definitely not huge compared to many others.
    Windale is 162x122x82.55mm, 110mm w/ fan (HxWxD).
    Big cooler is 160x150x135mm, 161mm w/ fan.

    Your 'voting for a longer warranty' is why many companies have long warranties, often with replacement value based on how long it lasts .. meaning a 6 year warranty pays something 30% of want you paid for it when new when it fails after 3 or 4 years. Unless you have a backup component setting on the shelf you have no computer until warranty replaces the one that died .. and takes weeks, sometime months before you have replacement in hand .. so unless you want to go without your computer you have to either keeps a cooler on hand or go out and buy one. With an air cooler there is only the fans to go bad which is rare if it's top tier cooler. Besides, fans usually start making noise before they fail, system will still work at low load, and any fan can be installed with rubber bands until suitable replacement is in hand.

    I used Tt a few times many, many years ago and had so many problems with quality and poor customer support I will never use them again.

    All CLCs (Closed Loop Cooler)are AIOs (All In One). CLCs are a sub group of AIO. In other words all CLCs are AIOs, but not all AIOs are CLCs. That probably only it more confusing. :p I think computer industry intentionally names things to confuse us. Just look at CPU and GPU model numbering.
     
  19. Apone70

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 15, 2018

    Posts: 277

    If i was to buy a new cpu cooler i would hands down get the new Corsair platium AIO if you look at reviews from OCUK or https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=05EadRvVceg#menu you will see its a great AIO. Im all for custom water cooling but if you want to cool a cpu and have a nice sexy AIO you cant really go wrong with it. I have the h100i v2 with an 8700k thats delidded, running 1.4v at 5ghz and it won't go over 62 degrees even when its 20 degrees ambient. Some air coolers are great and half the price but look **** and weigh a ton. Its down to personal choice


    *** Fully Star Swearing ***
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2018
  20. Apone70

    Gangster

    Joined: Aug 15, 2018

    Posts: 277

    Doyll obviously hates CLC lol


    Only bants....