AIR vs AIO. 18c drop in temps

Robert896r1

Robert896r1

Robert896r1

Soldato
Joined
28 Sep 2018
Posts
2,526
I know this batted around a lot so I figured I'd share my findings. The results are below and everything is exactly the same in bios. The air cooler was cleaned. All fans are 100% I use realbench not because of some magic reason. Only because I knew I could run it just shy of throttling the CPU on air.

Settings:
9900k
HT OFF
5.2ghz
1.305v in bios
z390 aorus pro
Turbo LLC
46x core
Case = haf x with side panel off

Dark Rock 4 results:
unknown.png


Alphacool 360LT results:
unknown.png
 
First things first, that's amazeballs! Now some questions! Delidded? Pre binned 9900k? How long was the test ran for on the AIO?

I would be interested in seeing the results of a Noctua NH-D15.

I'm a fan of air using a Noctua NH-D15S myself. I could set of a war here but Lines tech has shown that air coolers, in comparative size comparisons, are more efficient than AIO out of the box. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr0qLLv3dKc) Not to be confused with added push/pull configurations or a custom loop. Pump failures, cost, & general noise puts me off AIO's too.

85C is my peak spike in a fully closed custom modded NZXT Phantom case on a non delidded 8600k @5Ghz 1.34v adaptive running RealBench. I'm happy with that. Nice and quite too.

I'm thinking of delliding as Prime AVX needs a 1 AVX offset or I spike into 90C. Still, worse case scenario, -10 degrees after delidding will have me running 5Ghz Prime AVX in the 70C-80C range on air. owWM2k8.png
 
Last edited:
Whilst I'm not surprised a 360mm AIO is beating a mid/high end air cooler your results are a little skewed.

Voltage on air goes 0.03v higher and you haven't run it long enough for the AIO cooler to max out.

What are the fan speeds also? be quiet as the name suggests are tuned for silence with good performance I see the stock fans on the 360lt go up to 1700rpm
 
The AIO was already well warmed up with blender benchmark, time spy cpu loops and such.

The chip isn't binned or de-lidded. Just a retail unit I've said since launch.

Noise at 100% fans is well acceptable for benchmarking and waaay lower than my GB 2080ti when it warms up. In reality, it never gets past 60's during any gaming session such as BF5 which would put the DR4 with spikes around 80's.

Vcore is exactly the same. VR VOUT is what you need to look at on GB boards.

The 9900k even with HT off dumps a ton of heat and has thermal density issues which makes it difficult to cool. Most often, you'll be thermally limited on a 9900k more so than anything. I can easily make this AIO hit 100c by just enabling HT and bumping up the vcore to what's needed.
 
Robert896r1 said:
The AIO was already well warmed up with blender benchmark, time spy cpu loops and such.

The chip isn't binned or de-lidded. Just a retail unit I've said since launch.

Noise at 100% fans is well acceptable for benchmarking and waaay lower than my GB 2080ti when it warms up. In reality, it never gets past 60's during any gaming session such as BF5 which would put the DR4 with spikes around 80's.

Vcore is exactly the same. VR VOUT is what you need to look at on GB boards.

The 9900k even with HT off dumps a ton of heat and has thermal density issues which makes it difficult to cool. Most often, you'll be thermally limited on a 9900k more so than anything. I can easily make this AIO hit 100c by just enabling HT and bumping up the vcore to what's needed.
Click to expand...

Thank you, unusual to have all of the questions answered so thoroughly!

Just replied to this asking about possible outcomes for delidding the 9900k but remembered its soldered!

The Noctua NH-D15 will give slightly better results under load but not enough to really effect the outcome other than a couple of degrees. The Noctua runs at max 1500rpm, I imagine the Dark Rock 4 is similar maybe a 1300-1400 for noise control. Looks like the 9900k needs 360mm rad unless Noctua release a new heatsink that can tame that beast.

Funny you talking about VR VOUT because this has been bugging me. I have set LLC to High, unstable on normal and Turbo to much for my liking, on *Aorus* GB 5 Gaming and IA AC 1/IA DC 1 to try and tighten Vboost. @1.34v in bios I will still see spikes of 1.39V idleling according to Vcore in HWinfo. So this a wrong value to follow and I should be looking at VR VOUT on GB boards?
 
Last edited:
Jason Rage said:
Funny you talking about VR VOUT because this has been bugging me. I have set LLC to High, unstable on normal and Turbo to much for my liking, on GB 5 Gaming and IA AC 1/IA DC 1 to try and tighten Vboost. @1.34v in bios I will still see spikes of 1.39V idleling according to Vcore in HWinfo. So this a wrong value to follow and I should be looking at VR VOUT on GB boards?
Click to expand...

I found little benefit in running adaptive voltage. The power savings is almost a rounding error if you do the following: I do the following: use a fixed vcore, disable c-states, enable speed step and in windows use a "balanced" power plan. This lets my core clock to drop down to 800mhz (and in between) while my vcore remains predictable. When I'm away or idle, power on CPU Package drop down to around 13w which is fine.

I'm don't know much about a Gaming 5 so can't comment what the right llc is but on the Aorus series, the vdroop on high is just too much and makes you run a decently high idle to make up for it. On my board, Turbo is only level 3 of max. Extreme and Ultra Extreme are above it. I don't use those.
 
Robert896r1 said:
I'm don't know much about a Gaming 5 so can't comment what the right llc is but on the Aorus series, the vdroop on high is just too much and makes you run a decently high idle to make up for it. On my board, Turbo is only level 3 of max. Extreme and Ultra Extreme are above it. I don't use those.
Click to expand...

Mine is the Aorus Gaming 5. Should have specified that sorry. So Turbo is better than high? On high, whilst typing this with CPU-Z open on second monitor, my v is 0.840 steady. Yes I have noticed the Vdroop when say prime kicks in, I.e 1.23v. But Turbo can be a bit Vboost happy no and spike even higher? When I used Turbo on my fixed voltage I would Vboost to like 1.44v.

I have the set voltage overclock saved in Bios, all I need to do is enable speed step with power plan on Balanced already.

So using your fixed voltage with speed step on & Turbo you do not Vboost?
 
Last edited:
You have to run the AIO for longer than 15 minutes to provide a fair comparison, I'd recommend an hour for it to reach its maximum temp. The air cooler will reach its maximum temp within a few minutes, see this video:
 
robfosters said:
I can’t believe those temps. Dark Rock’s are good coolers, they should be cooling far more efficiently than that.
Click to expand...

Agree if there really was an 18c drop, almost feels like no one would be using high end air coolers, would not even have a market for them in the high end too.

Its so easy to get the heatsink installed a bit off or not fully flush with the top cpu heat plate, or too much or too little thermal paste, or wrong type of fan or wrong direction etc

Feels like re-testing and rechecking can never hurt, but if the results are true id consider going AIO !
 
R3X said:
Agree if there really was an 18c drop, almost feels like no one would be using high end air coolers, would not even have a market for them in the high end too.

Its so easy to get the heatsink installed a bit off or not fully flush with the top cpu heat plate, or too much or too little thermal paste, or wrong type of fan or wrong direction etc

Feels like re-testing and rechecking can never hurt, but if the results are true id consider going AIO !
Click to expand...
I’ve often had to reseat AM4 heatsinks 2 or 3 times because I’ve ruined the paste trying to attach it by that stupid clip system.
 
R3X said:
Agree if there really was an 18c drop, almost feels like no one would be using high end air coolers, would not even have a market for them in the high end too.

Its so easy to get the heatsink installed a bit off or not fully flush with the top cpu heat plate, or too much or too little thermal paste, or wrong type of fan or wrong direction etc

Feels like re-testing and rechecking can never hurt, but if the results are true id consider going AIO !
Click to expand...
This AIO is one of the best you can buy though whereas the Dark Rock 4 non-pro is just a single tower air cooler so it's mid range: https://www.eteknix.com/alphacool-eisbaer-lt-360-cpu-liquid-cooler-review/
 
Apparently its only a 3-4c difference between the Dark rock 4 and Pro 4 version

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/be_quiet_dark_rock_pro_4_review,7.html

If you see in the above review, dark rock pro 4 is actually one of the best @ idle and its a good 4-6c compared to the top end AIO and other 240 and 360 watercoolers, id expect that given the price and amount of powerful fans that are needed on those things.

Dark rock pro 4s have very silent fans its designed for silence not full on performance yet still competes with the rest of the water cooling and AIOs on those test well.
 
Robert896r1 said:
The Dark Rock 4 is not a good cooler when pushed..
Click to expand...

I thought it was the Pro lol. Would be useful to see temps on a Noctua NH-D15.

So, as to this, Prime AVX will push one of my cores above 90C on a 8600k @5Ghz 1.34v. I offset 1 AVX to keep it under 90C. This is on a Noctua NH-D15S, expected or to hot? I've reseated it twice using Noctua's included thermal paste. Airflow is not a problem with full NZXT Phantom that I have custom modded with 2 200mm Phanteks, 120mm+140mm

When I say custom modded I removed the HDD bay allowing for better airflow.
 
Last edited:
R3X said:
Apparently its only a 3-4c difference between the Dark rock 4 and Pro 4 version

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/be_quiet_dark_rock_pro_4_review,7.html
Click to expand...

Here's the exact problem with that review and if you read it, they even kinda mention it but excuse it:

"We've been battling the question whether or not to actually use a Core i7 4790K on a Z97 motherboard. The Haswell processors all have poor heat transfer from the silicon die to the IHS."

So the reviewer is fully aware that most of the heat issues are between the IHS and Die meaning that coolers are only doing surface heat transfers *BUT* the reviewers doesn't state that will greatly limit cooling performance which should have been the next step.

This is not the reviewers fault but we're now comparing a 4c/8t thread that has much better thermal density than Coffee Lake Refresh. You can watch more on thermal density here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLVzRY27A-I&t=1046s

I ended up buying a dark rock 4 back when I built my PC by relying on poorly formulated reviews and being knowledge limited as I hadn't been tracking PC trends since Sandy Bridge days. It's ultimately my decision to buy it so I take full responsibility but I'm glad to have moved past it. For the record, I had the same AIO before and it died within 30mins. So all is not rosy on the AIO front either.

If you want to look at good reviews for coolers, look at their methodology. That's way more important than the results page.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom