AIR vs AIO. 18c drop in temps

I do not trust your readings as you are the only person including reviews to state this, none of those videos matter as you would need compare both on your system so would need one of the best air coolers then even if readings are weird they are apples to apples.
 
b00merang69 said:
I do not trust your readings as you are the only person including reviews to state this, none of those videos matter as you would need compare both on your system so would need one of the best air coolers then even if readings are weird they are apples to apples.
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There's no reason to trust me. Simply, go find a 9900k being air cooled while pulling 150amps and 225w. Let me know what you find.
 
Ross Thomson said:
Ands it’s clearly been shown that these are not any better.
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Can you please give us some links to sources of where 'it's clearly been shown that these (AIOs) are not any better? I have compared be quiet! Silent Loop 280 to top tier air in case with good airflow (airflow into cooler less than 4c above room ambient both CPU & GPU at full long) and found it to be as good at same noise levels as top tier air. A mate tested top tier air against CLCs and Swiftech H2 and found top tier air to be better than CLCs but not quite as good as H220-X (240mm rad) but very close but louder (-1c / +10dBA). H240-X (280mm rad) was same temp and noise level. I posted that data years ago using Photobucket as host, but now they blur images and want ransom to give clear images. ;( Here is graph
clear enough to read:
CLCvsAirw-H240X_zpsaea0c7ea.jpg


And some others showing temp to noise of CLC vs air cooling
741856c0_b4.jpeg
1bb1ceeb_b3.jpeg
 
doyll said:
Can you please give us some links to sources of where 'it's clearly been shown that these (AIOs) are not any better? I have compared be quiet! Silent Loop 280 to top tier air in case with good airflow (airflow into cooler less than 4c above room ambient both CPU & GPU at full long) and found it to be as good at same noise levels as top tier air. A mate tested top tier air against CLCs and Swiftech H2 and found top tier air to be better than CLCs but not quite as good as H220-X (240mm rad) but very close but louder (-1c / +10dBA). H240-X (280mm rad) was same temp and noise level. I posted that data years ago using Photobucket as host, but now they blur images and want ransom to give clear images. ;( Here is graph
clear enough to read:


And some others showing temp to noise of CLC vs air cooling
/QUOTE]

nice information about an old cooler that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
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Ross Thomson said:
nice information about an old cooler that has nothing to do with what I wrote.
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I'm going to assume your post cannot be backed with supporting data sence you didn't supply anything backing your claims .. instead you critic what I posted.

I will add pay special attention to H100 at similar noise well as top tier air cooling is 9c hotter .. to give similar temps H100 runs 26dB louder. All of this is in a case that flow enough air supplying similar temperature air to both air cooler and CLC.

The image that isn't showing had Swiftech H220 & H240 AIO test results. Lets see if these work
67566811_CLCvsAirw-H240X.jpeg


LL

https://www.overclock.net/forum/26510722-post320.html

Keep in mind 10dB increase in sound pressure doubles how loud it sounds to our ears.

8a3404b6_CLCvsAir.jpeg

https://www.overclock.net/forum/246...i-review-noctua-nh-d15-vs-corsair-h110-3.html
 
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Robert896r1 said:
A 4770k has nothing in common with a 9900k. There have completely different thermal density, power outputs. Not to mention paste vs solder.

Here is something in 2019 that's directly relevant rather than digging artifacts: https://youtu.be/RjRFXsjK414?t=305
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Yes there are some differences, but there are many more similarities than differences.

While paste generally does not transfer heat from chip to IHS as well as solder, both have chips generating heat and moving that heat to IHS where it is transferred through TIM into cooler / waterblock, then into liquid that evaporates and moves through heatpipes to fins or is pumped through hoses to radiator.

There are many more variables involved in these reviews then the few differences between 4770k and 9900k. Very few even monitor air temp into cooler / radiator .. I don't know of any review test site that does anything like using pressure sensitive paper to determine how good / poor the mating of IHS to cooler / waterblock, and that alone can easily be 4-5c difference in recorded temps. So combine IHS to cooler / waterblock and a 2-5c possible difference between air actually entering cooler / radiator versus room air temp and we have a combined total 6-10c that can be accounted for as margin of error in test results.

I'm not saying it is that much, just pointing out 3-5c difference in CPU temps is about as close to '0c' as we can be sure we have .. meaning 65-67c for one cooler and 68-70c for another is both performing about the same.
 
b00merang69 said:
doyll I thought you were the resident aircooler fanboy, you went to wet side?

Also every increase of 3dB is double not 10dB.
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While I run air on all but one of my systems I was using water before we had decent air coolers .. back when we had to make our own waterblocks, used pond pumps and automotive radiators .. even CLCs are many times better than what was used in the early days of water cooling personal computer. Over the years I've tested many kinds of coolers.

We are both partly correct as well as wrong:
HOW DO DECIBELS RELATE TO SOUND LEVEL?
The human ear's response to sound level is roughly logarithmic (based on powers of 10), and the dB scale reflects that fact. An increase of 3dB doubles the sound intensity but a 10dB increase is required before a sound is perceived to be twice as loud. Therefore a small increase in decibels represents a large increase in intensity. For example - 10dB is 10 times more intense than 1dB, while 20dB is 100 times more intense than 1dB. The sound intensity multiplies by 10 with every 10dB increase.
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4th paragraph
http://www.sounddeadsteel.com/what-is-a-decibel.html
 
doyll said:
While paste generally[] does not transfer heat from chip to IHS as well as solder, both have chips generating heat and moving that heat to IHS where it is transferred through TIM into cooler / waterblock, then into liquid that evaporates and moves through heatpipes to fins or is pumped through hoses to radiator.

There are many more variables involved in these reviews then the few differences between 4770k and 9900k. Very few even monitor air temp into cooler / radiator .. I don't know of any review test site that does anything like using pressure sensitive paper to determine how good / poor the mating of IHS to cooler / waterblock, and that alone can easily be 4-5c difference in recorded temps. So combine IHS to cooler / waterblock and a 2-5c possible difference between air actually entering cooler / radiator versus room air temp and we have a combined total 6-10c that can be accounted for as margin of error in test results.

I'm not saying it is that much, just pointing out 3-5c difference in CPU temps is about as close to '0c' as we can be sure we have .. meaning 65-67c for one cooler and 68-70c for another is both performing about the same.
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There's nothing 3-5c in my example that I've posted or the techyescity video I posted or the craftcomputing video I posted.

This isn't a hard thing to solve. Simply demonstrate an air cooler getting 150a/220W off a 9900k without thermal throttling. It's a math problem.

In the same way that an AIO is not going to cool a 200a/300w 9900k oc. Each solution has it's limits. A good AIO has a higher threshold for heat dissipation than an air cooler.

Again, it's math. Not magic.
 
Robert896r1 said:
There's nothing 3-5c in my example that I've posted or the techyescity video I posted or the craftcomputing video I posted.

This isn't a hard thing to solve. Simply demonstrate an air cooler getting 150a/220W off a 9900k without thermal throttling. It's a math problem.

In the same way that an AIO is not going to cool a 200a/300w 9900k oc. Each solution has it's limits. A good AIO has a higher threshold for heat dissipation than an air cooler.

Again, it's math. Not magic.
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Math yes, but it's not as simple as 200a/300w vs 150a/220w. Math is sometimes nice, but I've seen way too many time that physical application was radically different than math had calculated. Often math can explain things found by physical application after the fact better than it can predict what will happen. It is often extremely hard to make sure all the variables are included in original math calculations. The end result can be quite different from what your math says it will be.

Have you seen the detailed testing of custom loop, AIO, CLC and a few top tier air coolers done by [H]ard|OCP did on 2990wx? You might find it interesting.
http://m.hardocp.com/article/2018/10/09/noctua_amd_threadripper_air_cooler_roundup/8
http://m.hardocp.com/article/2018/09/28/threadripper_air_coolerssilver_arrow_tr4_vs_wraith_ripper/7
 
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doyll said:
Math yes, but it's not as simple as 200a/300w vs 150a/220w. Math is sometimes nice, but I've seen way too many time that physical application was radically different than math had calculated. Often math can explain things found by physical application after the fact better than it can predict what will happen. It is often extremely hard to make sure all the variables are included in original math calculations. The end result can be quite different from what your math says it will be.

Have you seen the detailed testing of custom loop, AIO, CLC and a few top tier air coolers done by [H]ard|OCP did on 2990wx? You might find it interesting.
http://m.hardocp.com/article/2018/10/09/noctua_amd_threadripper_air_cooler_roundup/8
http://m.hardocp.com/article/2018/09/28/threadripper_air_coolerssilver_arrow_tr4_vs_wraith_ripper/7
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Again. That's not a 9900k. TR has a massive IHS and can dissipate heat better.

That's as relevant as saying "look how well a cheap AIO handles a 2080ti core"

You're having a hard timing finding those results because they don't exist so you keep trying to deflect. Come back with an air cooler dissipating 150a/220w on a 9900k. You won't.
 
Robert896r1 said:
Again. That's not a 9900k. TR has a massive IHS and can dissipate heat better.

That's as relevant as saying "look how well a cheap AIO handles a 2080ti core"

You're having a hard timing finding those results because they don't exist so you keep trying to deflect. Come back with an air cooler dissipating 150a/220w on a 9900k. You won't.
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The size of 2990wx CPU chips and IHS is bigger than 9900k, but that is not the biggest difference.

The biggest differences between 9900x and 2990wx are 2990wx makes much more heat and starts throttling at 67-68c instead of approx 95-100c for your 9900x. 2990wx is 165w TDP and 2990wx is 250w .. even higher when boosted. This means more heat has to be removed from 2990wx to keep it from overheating and throttling than 9900x does. 2990wx higher wattage and lower throttle temp than your 9900x mean it needs much more cooling than your 9900x does.

All of the results I've been posting show air cooling and AIO/CLC to be within a few degrees of each other. Actually air coolers are generally quieter at similar temps as AIO/CLCs.

Your results being as extremely skewed as they are is because your air cooled case airflow was supplying coolerwith air much warmer than your CLC radiator is using. Every degree warmer the air is into air cooler under work load is same number of degrees hotter CPU will be. So if air is 10c or 20c warmer into air cooler than AIO/CLC the air cooled CPU results will be 10c or 20c hotter than AIO/CLC results. That is why your air cooled system ran so much hotter than it now does with CLC, not because AIO/CLC is better cooling.

The only unique thing about your system test results is you went from a very poorly cooling air cooled setup to a AIO/CLC and got a huge drop in temps.

It's all about your system's cooling abilty cooling with air vs AIO/CLC in that system. It is not "air vs AIO/CLC" as your thread title claims.
 
doyll said:
Can you please give us some links to sources of where 'it's clearly been shown that these (AIOs) are not any better? I have compared be quiet! Silent Loop 280 to top tier air in case with good airflow (airflow into cooler less than 4c above room ambient both CPU & GPU at full long) and found it to be as good at same noise levels as top tier air.
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I'm confused... @Ross Thomson says that it’s clearly been shown that higher end AIO are not any better than higher end air coolers, and @doyll disagrees with the comeback that a be quiet! Silent Loop 280 was as good at same noise levels as top tier air... aren't they both saying the same thing?
 
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