"alcohol is at least twice as harmful to users than cannabis and 5 times more harmful to society"

That'll never happen given the amount of tax our government makes of it!

A friend of mine who is a habitual cannabis smoker once told me the only dangerous thing in the joint he was smoking was the tobacco - perhaps someone can correct me if I'm wrong with that?

I assume you're right, i.e. it's what he said. But he's wrong. It's either the usual self-deception people tend to indulge in regarding things they do that are bad for them or the deception of other people by advocates. The degree of harm is uncertain, but it's not zero.

On topic - another friend who is a police officer has said on more than one occasion he would rather see youngsters smoking a few joints and chilling on a Fri, Sat night as opposed to getting completely smashed on cheap alcohol then causing trouble and getting into fights. Says it all really!

It's not a new idea - the introduction of cheap high potency alcoholic drink (in the form of gin) was the biggest drug abuse issue of the day (~1700) in England. They tried a limited form of prohibition back then, with even less success than the USA had later. Not only did everyone+dog break the law, there were large-scale riots to get it repealed. Beer was punted as the desirable alternative, rather than cannabis, but the idea was the same.
 
You'll be singing a different tune after an addict high on cannabis breaks in to your house in search of cash for his next "fix", and murder-rapes your whole family. It's illegal for a reason.

Omg ban tv's and laptops and money so people dont break into your house and murder your familly.:rolleyes:
 
Be that as it may, legalising various drugs AND keeping alcohol as it is now will just increase the overall problems related to these things instead of reducing them.

Why would it increase overall problems?
More tax, less police time,less kids locked up, alcohol usage could decrease? It's a win win situation.
I know a couple of smokers, you could never tell from the outside. They are young, bright intelligent kids. If they were caught then they would get a criminal record and it could ruin their career? Why should they have that risk because of something that relatively speaking is causing hardly any harm?
 
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Why can't cannabis be regulated and taxed?
I heard that the main reason for the legislation is that if it was legalised some companies would go down the drain as marijuana can be used for pain relief.

LOL

thata not the reason at all. Big pharma companies do not make any money from their analgesic lines. They actually give them away free in bulk to wholesalers as part of promotions when selling their actual lines that do turn a profit.
 
the side effects i have are short term memory loss, occasional loss of concentration and lethargy sometimes. when stoned i can be very absent minded but thats why i get stoned tbh.

and the usual smoking related symptoms too, which are to be expected.

some people claim weed hangovers, although i've not experienced those.
 
The trouble is if you legalised it in the UK, there are too many people who would simply abuse it and smoke a hell of a lot more causing problems in the future. I certainly wouldn't say its trouble free, I'm feeling the effects quite badly of 7-8years of smoking it almost every day. Since pretty much stopping I have extreme mood swings and have an inability to deal with certain situations. It's almost like these problems are masked by carrying on smoking it but are only building up inside. That said, some people will be absolutely fine smoking regularly, but many I know (along with myself) are suffering the consequences.

However, as mentioned already a group of people getting high are much less likely to cause trouble compared to a group getting drunk if you ask me. They are two completely different things, so have completely different results - you cannot simply compare them.
 
Why would it increase overall problems?
More tax, less police time,less kids locked up, alcohol usage could decrease? It's a win win situation.

Let's say 20 million people regularly drink alcohol. If cannabis is made legal, let's say 10 million people start using that, and 5 million of those aren't regular drinkers.

That means you have 5 million extra people 'stoned' and that could potentially create more problems. I'm not saying all of them will, but some of them will.

It is of course a hypothetical situation, but you see what I'm getting at.

I know a couple of smokers, you could never tell from the outside. They are young, bright intelligent kids. If they were caught then they would get a criminal record and it could ruin their career? Why should they have that risk because of something that relatively speaking is causing hardly any harm?

It's illegal, they know it's illegal yet they still do it and they are willing to take that risk. Whether they think it should be illegal or not doesn't mean they can ignore the law.
 
Be that as it may, legalising various drugs AND keeping alcohol as it is now will just increase the overall problems related to these things instead of reducing them.

Funnily enough, it didn't increase the consumption or problems in Portugal when they decriminalised everything, including 'hard' drugs.

The thing is just because a drug becomes legal, doesn't mean you have to take it! :p

And as we stand now, I don't know many people who want to take x drug but don't , just because it is illegal.

This is something mankind has done from the dawn of time and the reasons for their modern prohibition have now been obscured in the mists of time.

If I wish to take a recreational substance, then that is my choice, it is not for someone else to tell me what I can or can't take. Now, if I cannot control myself whilst under said influence, then I should be reprimanded/ prosecuted in proportion to the severity of the outcome.

ie: Its not illegal to drink, but it is illegal to drink and drive.

What's the difference with any other drug?
 
Because the mental health system is stretched enough!

You have to factor in that tax would be bringing in awful lot of extra money..
Perhaps even enough to offset the cost of providing mental health care, as well as this alcohol usage could decrease which would end up being a saviour.
 
LOL

thata not the reason at all. Big pharma companies do not make any money from their analgesic lines. They actually give them away free in bulk to wholesalers as part of promotions when selling their actual lines that do turn a profit.

I remember Dafty Davies of Dragons Den fame (the guy is a human calculator but he can't hold a program down to save his life) doing a bit about pharma business and a big cheese he was interviewing said something along the lines of "we only have a short period of time where we make money on a drug, so as soon as one comes to market we have to have another ready and waiting in the wings for when the profit on the current release begins to decline."

It appears to me that cannabis and the medicinal pharma industry don't really get on well, after all, what has become of sativex?, I haven't heard much about it after the bruhaha of its launch.
 
What needs to be used as a resource is hemp, produces better quality paper than trees and also is easier to manufacture into paper.

And many other things!
 
You have to factor in that tax would be bringing in awful lot of extra money..
Perhaps even enough to offset the cost of providing mental health care, as well as this alcohol usage could decrease which would end up being a saviour.
I've been at both ends of the spectrum involving cannabis and mental illness. I don't want it legalized.
 
You'll be singing a different tune after an addict high on cannabis breaks in to your house in search of cash for his next "fix", and murder-rapes your whole family. It's illegal for a reason.

What? Have you ever smoked it? Been in the presence of someone that is stoned from weed?

Narrow minded people like you that its illegal. No one on weed needs a fix, its less addictive than cigs, or even alcohol.

Infact there is more (much more) chance of this happening from a drunk.
 
I can't remember ;)

No, seriously, probably 6-7 years now.

I smoked everyday (here or there) for 2+ years in my teens, I won't lie. It was fun at the time but after a while I realized it was screwing with our heads. I've spoken to ex smokers and we agree its not a 'fun' day if you aren't high.

If we couldn't get any weed off our dealers then we'd be bored as hell really. We were all set to give up smoking it over one weekend where we'd buy an ounce and go camping. I pulled out relatively last minute as that seemed like a stupid idea. I gave up really easily infact and burnt my childhood friends in the process, I was always different in the first place.

A year ahead, one my friends proceeded to take harsher drugs, has been to a psychologist, has to take pills to control himself (dunno what). The other is okay as much as I know. Probably a little different but still going well.

Me on the other hand, whether it was the weed or not, I am fairly reclusive but disliking it a lot of the time. Socially inept mostly. Not sure if I came out worse then most of my friends or whether that was roughly the way I was going to turn out to be :p

I would turn back time if I could. Moderation is all people really need to know. People excuse weed as a weak drug, over time it really does mess with you.
 
I remember Dafty Davies of Dragons Den fame (the guy is a human calculator but he can't hold a program down to save his life) doing a bit about pharma business and a big cheese he was interviewing said something along the lines of "we only have a short period of time where we make money on a drug, so as soon as one comes to market we have to have another ready and waiting in the wings for when the profit on the current release begins to decline."

It appears to me that cannabis and the medicinal pharma industry don't really get on well, after all, what has become of sativex?, I haven't heard much about it after the bruhaha of its launch.

Innovator companies get to patent their molecules upon discovery, it then takes them a further 3 to 5 years sometimes more before they go from discovery to shelf, once on shelf they have both patent protection and something called a data exclusivity period of 12 years where by no one can genericise the product. Add to that their army of lawyers and other methods of evergreening thei rproducts they susually get at least a 12 year run to make money before every man and his dog in china and india can copy the drug.

Pharma research runs into the billions fo rthese companies and despite what the daily fail might tell you they do not have hordes of molecules in the wings waiting to be launched. Why do you think so many R&D jobs are being axed and these large companies are re-assessing their positions. Most of their pipelines are running almost dry and they are likely to take a massive hit over the next 3 to 5 years unless they can bring up something really novel rather than a redevelopment of an older product.

Watch this space in 3 to 5 years time because innovator pharma shares are going to sink like a rock.
 
Watch this space in 3 to 5 years time because innovator pharma shares are going to sink like a rock.

I think improvements in in silico screening and increasing availability of crystal structures will tide them over for a bit longer.
 
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