@jigger its time to upgrade that 1800X mate
I have. That board has a 3700X fitted and will likely get a 12 or 16 core 3D V-Cache chip once those land
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Alder Lake-S leaks
- Thread starter Grim5
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I have. That board has a 3700X fitted and will likely get a 12 or 16 core 3D V-Cache chip once those land
Still rocking my 1800x. No reason to upgrade yet but I'm slightly worried about battlefield 2042.I have. That board has a 3700X fitted and will likely get a 12 or 16 core 3D V-Cache chip once those land
Caporegime
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Zen2 pricing pushed Intel downwards even though their CPUs were a bit faster,but since Zen3 was a bit faster than Intel,they decided to price them more per core. My fear was if Intel then managed to beat Zen3 in per core performance,they would price higher than AMD. It also suits AMD,because if their 8C is £330 and the Intel 8C is well over £400,it doesn't matter as AMD is "cheaper" as it means both AMD/Intel can sell off older parts at RRP/old street pricing. Basically now we see both companies making sure they don't overcompete with each other. We saw the same thing with GPUs.
It wouldn't surprise me if Zen4,which will probably beat ADL per core,ends up costing £350 for a 6C model,unless AMD is generous and decides to undercut Intel. Then Intel pricing its Core i5 even higher. Hence we are going to be back to 4C CPUs being the mainstream option again at this rate!
It wouldn't surprise me if Zen4,which will probably beat ADL per core,ends up costing £350 for a 6C model,unless AMD is generous and decides to undercut Intel. Then Intel pricing its Core i5 even higher. Hence we are going to be back to 4C CPUs being the mainstream option again at this rate!
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Yes it's looking quite bleak pricing wise to be honest. Competition used to mean lower prices but now it seems that companies just match each others pricing models. When one increases prices the other simply follows along.Zen2 pricing pushed Intel downwards even though their CPUs were a bit faster,but since Zen3 was a bit faster than Intel,they decided to price them more per core. My fear was if Intel then managed to beat Zen3 in per core performance,they would price higher than AMD. It also suits AMD,because if their 8C is £330 and the Intel 8C is well over £400,it doesn't matter as AMD is "cheaper" as it means both AMD/Intel can sell off older parts at RRP/old street pricing. Basically now we see both companies making sure they don't overcompete with each other. We saw the same thing with GPUs.
It wouldn't surprise me if Zen4,which will probably beat ADL per core,ends up costing £350 for a 6C model,unless AMD is generous and decides to undercut Intel. Then Intel pricing its Core i5 even higher. Hence we are going to be back to 4C CPUs being the mainstream option again at this rate!
Vote with your wallet doesn't seem to work either. People are happy to overpay.
Zen2 pricing pushed Intel downwards even though their CPUs were a bit faster,but since Zen3 was a bit faster than Intel,they decided to price them more per core. My fear was if Intel then managed to beat Zen3 in per core performance,they would price higher than AMD. It also suits AMD,because if their 8C is £330 and the Intel 8C is well over £400,it doesn't matter as AMD is "cheaper" as it means both AMD/Intel can sell off older parts at RRP/old street pricing. Basically now we see both companies making sure they don't overcompete with each other. We saw the same thing with GPUs.
It wouldn't surprise me if Zen4,which will probably beat ADL per core,ends up costing £350 for a 6C model,unless AMD is generous and decides to undercut Intel. Then Intel pricing its Core i5 even higher. Hence we are going to be back to 4C CPUs being the mainstream option again at this rate!
Yes, Zen 4 will be expensive, currently the #3 best selling CPU is the 5950X at $729, just as Nvidia learned with the GTX Titan AMD are learning that people are willing to spend a lot of money on their products, because they are good, trust me when i tell you Zen 4 and Zen 5 are going to be another frame shift in performance and efficiency, they are going to be very good, so they will be expensive.
I think as long as there are high performance CPU's for under £300 i don't care about what they cost at the high end, if AMD or Intel want to make ridiculously high performance CPU's on the mainstream and charge $1500 for them go right ahead, i'm not going to be buying them but others will and if that's how they stuff their coffers for R&D so be it.... go do your whale hunting.
Have you noticed there is an explosion in CPU advancement? i'm old enough to remember the last one, as a result of that one we got an explosion in performance up tick and innovation, 64Bit Computing, Multicore CPU's, accelerated processors.
It was because AMD were earning real money and using it to make real innovations rapidly, those were exciting time and they are back, another explosion in per core performance (AMD are just getting warmed up with that) MCM CPU's, 2.5D stacking and the holy grail for decades soon to be a reality, 3D stacking, because AMD are competing again, they have their mojo back and they are dragging the whole industry kicking and screaming up and up and up.... for those of you who think AMD should be the pound world in this industry think again. We don't want that.
Zen 4 +40% over Zen 3 per core.
Have you noticed there is an explosion in CPU advancement? i'm old enough to remember the last one, as a result of that one we got an explosion in performance up tick and innovation, 64Bit Computing, Multicore CPU's, accelerated processors.
It was because AMD were earning real money and using it to make real innovations rapidly, those were exciting time and they are back, another explosion in per core performance (AMD are just getting warmed up with that) MCM CPU's, 2.5D stacking and the holy grail for decades soon to be a reality, 3D stacking, because AMD are competing again, they have their mojo back and they are dragging the whole industry kicking and screaming up and up and up.... for those of you who think AMD should be the pound world in this industry think again. We don't want that.
Zen 4 +40% over Zen 3 per core.
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Zen 2 was hands down AMDs best CPUs to date for price performance especially the 3600 and 3700X which offered excellent VFM but then came zen 3 which offered more performance but with a price increase % higher than the performance increased on those equivalent Sku's so it wasn't really as exciting.Zen2 pricing pushed Intel downwards even though their CPUs were a bit faster,but since Zen3 was a bit faster than Intel,they decided to price them more per core. My fear was if Intel then managed to beat Zen3 in per core performance,they would price higher than AMD. It also suits AMD,because if their 8C is £330 and the Intel 8C is well over £400,it doesn't matter as AMD is "cheaper" as it means both AMD/Intel can sell off older parts at RRP/old street pricing. Basically now we see both companies making sure they don't overcompete with each other. We saw the same thing with GPUs.
It wouldn't surprise me if Zen4,which will probably beat ADL per core,ends up costing £350 for a 6C model,unless AMD is generous and decides to undercut Intel. Then Intel pricing its Core i5 even higher. Hence we are going to be back to 4C CPUs being the mainstream option again at this rate!
Hopefully prices won't increase again with zen 4 else we'll be back paying the same for 6 cores as we were 4 years ago when intel was charging that for the 8700k flagship model and everyone moaned about Intels prices yet this will be the lowest end SKU of the stack.
What I'd like to see is AMD give the ryzen 5 model 8 cores if they want £350+ for it and then push out a ryzen 3 with 6 cores for no more than £230 but given all the profiteering lately I can't see this happening unfortunately and we'll probably end up with a 25% performance increase for a 30% price increase.
Caporegime
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@NZXT30 @humbug @Joxeon
The main problem is that price increases are getting silly. So it was bad enough a top-end Core i5 K series was £250. The Ryzen 5 5600X was £280 and the Core i5 12600K appears to be £310. So that means the Ryzen 5 6600X is £340 and the Core i5 13600K is £370,etc. So that means we have essentially got back to Intel 8000 series 6C pricing.
That could be what we are seeing in 2023 for a 6C model,just because each one has slightly faster cores than the previous best model. This is basically going to mean performance stagnation,as the sub £300 market eventually becomes only 4C and 4C is crap for multi-tasking however fast it will be. Most of these benchmarks will only show singular tasks,not multi-tasking too where more cores has an advantage.
Plus Intel and AMD if they do this,don't need to price the previous generation cheaper as they will sell out at RRP or longterm standard pricing. The cheapest you can find a Ryzen 5 3600 currently is closer to £200!
The issue is people need to vote with their wallets - if not even if Intel and AMD double core counts,they can simply use it to price the top more and more. You can see that with GPU pricing - BOTH Nvidia and AMD have no interest in directly competing with each other. They just put products in-between each other,so both can maximise their pricing.Its a joke both are selling 1080p GPUs for well over £300.
This is almost like what happened with Intel after the Core2. They made the jump to 4 reasonably priced cores with the Q6600 G0,and things just got worse and worse from there onwards. We had nearly a decade of faster and faster quad cores,whilst they added more cores at the top end and the price went up too. At the top Intel had far more cores,but you had to pay for it.So basically this is what is happening again.
Yet what is the likelihood we can buy the downclocked laptop versions in complete systems for a few £100?? Its cheaper to buy a decent prebuilt desktop or laptop,than doing a build yourself nowadays. I think that Nvidia,AMD and Intel just see enthusiasts as MUGS. The worst thing is desktop sillicon is increasingly the rejects which can't make it into a laptops,or other areas.
The main problem is that price increases are getting silly. So it was bad enough a top-end Core i5 K series was £250. The Ryzen 5 5600X was £280 and the Core i5 12600K appears to be £310. So that means the Ryzen 5 6600X is £340 and the Core i5 13600K is £370,etc. So that means we have essentially got back to Intel 8000 series 6C pricing.
That could be what we are seeing in 2023 for a 6C model,just because each one has slightly faster cores than the previous best model. This is basically going to mean performance stagnation,as the sub £300 market eventually becomes only 4C and 4C is crap for multi-tasking however fast it will be. Most of these benchmarks will only show singular tasks,not multi-tasking too where more cores has an advantage.
Plus Intel and AMD if they do this,don't need to price the previous generation cheaper as they will sell out at RRP or longterm standard pricing. The cheapest you can find a Ryzen 5 3600 currently is closer to £200!
The issue is people need to vote with their wallets - if not even if Intel and AMD double core counts,they can simply use it to price the top more and more. You can see that with GPU pricing - BOTH Nvidia and AMD have no interest in directly competing with each other. They just put products in-between each other,so both can maximise their pricing.Its a joke both are selling 1080p GPUs for well over £300.
This is almost like what happened with Intel after the Core2. They made the jump to 4 reasonably priced cores with the Q6600 G0,and things just got worse and worse from there onwards. We had nearly a decade of faster and faster quad cores,whilst they added more cores at the top end and the price went up too. At the top Intel had far more cores,but you had to pay for it.So basically this is what is happening again.
Yet what is the likelihood we can buy the downclocked laptop versions in complete systems for a few £100?? Its cheaper to buy a decent prebuilt desktop or laptop,than doing a build yourself nowadays. I think that Nvidia,AMD and Intel just see enthusiasts as MUGS. The worst thing is desktop sillicon is increasingly the rejects which can't make it into a laptops,or other areas.
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Only once the global chip shortage is over, and TSMC is not selling to the highest bidder for their wafers will you see prices decreases.
So UK prices leaked on the rainforest
12900k 3.2Ghz PL1 TDP 125W, PL2 TDP 228W PCIE GEN 4 Max Turbo 5.2Ghz- £791.16
12900KF 3.2Ghz - £753.30
12700K - 3.6Ghz £550.16
12700KF 3.6Ghz - £397.13
12600K 3.7Ghz - £311.41
Just looked and listings do not seem to be there anymore
12900k 3.2Ghz PL1 TDP 125W, PL2 TDP 228W PCIE GEN 4 Max Turbo 5.2Ghz- £791.16
12900KF 3.2Ghz - £753.30
12700K - 3.6Ghz £550.16
12700KF 3.6Ghz - £397.13
12600K 3.7Ghz - £311.41
Just looked and listings do not seem to be there anymore
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That's wot I expected gonna wait till they drop a bit .. thsts not even a mother board included or ram to pricey .
Seems like Intel are going to be doing some promo bundles with Z690, CPU (K-only), and DDR5 RAM, no specific dates on the bundles or pricing but it looks like a sure way to get your hands on an matched set of RAM with a board you know will work. Looks like one of the promo's also has either an AIO included or a voucher to redeem an AIO from a certain brand.
I did find it strange how the min AMD spec was ryzen 3600 but they listed a really old i5-6600 for intel
but the proof will be in the pudding
Yeah they are not equivalent
that would be a Ryzen R3 3100, maybe they think the 3600 is the lowest end Zen 2, the 3100 was a late addition and not well known.12700KF must be a misprint, probably £497 if the 12900KF is £50 cheaper than the 12900K, they are quite expensive, the 12900KF is £100 more expensive than the 5950X, the 12700K £80 more expensive than the 5900X.
I'd quite like to see AMD move pricing:
5950X £550
5900X £400
5800X £300 (already £340)
5600X £200
Caporegime
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The problem is Intel/AMD/Nvidia - if people are willing to pay the prices,the prices will stay high after this period. The RRPs are more based on what the market will bare than actual production costs IMHO,and cheaper production costs and a high price means more margins. I suppose its upto consumers to really vote with their pockets.