Alder Lake

[JohnG7]

I thought Intel used to, probably cost less to let an outside contactor who have fabs set up for X/Y/Z than building your own purpose built one.

 

[Destination]

5 year lead time is likely part of it, and having no experience in the role, if you end up (like intel) unable to deliver your designs at the end of the process, you are a dead duck....
Intel is still going due to their previous heavy lead, coupled with unscrupulous practices, and their mindshare, if they don't run things around, especially in server space, then they will dwindle and fail over the coming architectural generation.

-edit used to use globalfoundries as well as TSMC, and until 14nm that was fine, they seem to have similar issues with node shrinkage as intel do, and thus more weight moved to TSMC and Samsung.

 

[humbug]

Forgive my ignorance, but why can’t these big companies like Intel, AMD and Nvidia invest in producing their own wafers?

AMD used to have their own foundries, they sold them, they are now Global Foundries.

The problem with having your own foundries is trying to keep up with the much larger commercial foundries like TSMC, as Intel are now finding out its extremely difficult and expensive, better to let someone like TSMC spend the tens of billions in R&D and buy from them.
---------------

RE: Zen 4, Genoa engineering samples are actually 29% faster per clock than Milan (Zen 3) the other 10% or so comes from higher clock speed.

AMD are a juggernaut right now, there's just no stopping them.

 

[4K8KW10]

Forgive my ignorance, but why can’t these big companies like Intel, AMD and Nvidia invest in producing their own wafers?

Because manufacturing semiconductors is bigger than them - next is Intel to go fabless or at least without having the cutting edge performance node.
Ask the Dutch corporation ASML - they will explain to you.

 

[sidthesexist]

Investors are already demanding that Intel sell off their manufacturing side. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-intel-manufacturing-analysis-idUSKBN294165

 

[Dave2150]

AMD are a juggernaut right now, there's just no stopping them.

They've stopped themselves mate, paper launch, scalped prices for the low/mid end parts that are available, high end 5900x/5950x out of stock everywhere.

 

[4K8KW10]

They've stopped themselves mate, paper launch, scalped prices for the low/mid end parts that are available, high end 5900x/5950x out of stock everywhere.

Yeah, AMD shoots itself in the foot - either bad management and they can't relocate/use dies for the 12-core and 16-core SKUs, or simply the demand for the lower-end 8-core SKUs is much lower, so virtually every shop has them.
Either way - ugly by AMD.

 

[humbug]

They've stopped themselves mate, paper launch, scalped prices for the low/mid end parts that are available, high end 5900x/5950x out of stock everywhere.

AMD are selling more chips than they can make, 10 Million chips in Q4 2020 alone.

Sure, its a really bad place to be in when you're selling more chips than you can make

 

[4K8KW10]

AMD are selling more chips than they can make, 10 Million chips in Q4 2020 alone.

Sure, its a really bad place to be in when you're selling more chips than you can make

There are large piles of unsold older SKUs and Ryzen 7 5800X - I bet these are not so tempting for the user base.
Everyone wants the 12-core Ryzen 9 5900X and above.

 

[Purgatory]

Because Zen 4/Ryzen 6000 has 25-30% more IPC than Zen3/Ryzen 5000

The rumour mill says Zen 4 is able to do 5ghz all core in multi thread load - producing CPUs that are up to a combined 40% faster than current Zen 3 due to 30% IPC and 10% higher clock speed

https://wccftech.com/amd-5nm-next-generation-zen-4-ryzen-epyc-cpus-to-feature-over-25-ipc-increase/

this one says 29% :-

AMD's Zen 4 architecture reportedly delivers a 29% IPC increase with Genoa

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cp...tedly_delivers_a_29_ipc_increase_with_genoa/1


all clickbait for now and talking about zen3+ too.

I don't believe anything these companies say till it's out and tested by the public. AMD claims this and Intel claim this.. blaa blaa till the goods are out and can be tested. They are all in a bit of trouble next round with DDR5 on the way too which will make updating platforms a nightmare at the start with the costs and for sure issues with new gear.

Will have to wait and see, but anyone adopting a new platform from the start better be ready for issues they can deal with.

 

[Grim5]

AMD are TSMCs largest customer, they just have so many things going on.
Intel can't get off their 14nm node, and haven't so they are seeking samsung to build additional fabs to save their future.
no one has sufficient demand currently, not amd gfx, not nvidia gfx, not amd cpu, not amd xbox, or amd ps5.
Intel might have, but they saw constraint issues also last year to to awful yields even in their mature 14nm.

I am not convinced you have much of clue about anything you Ryan Shrout about.

Actually Apple is TSMC's largest customer followed by Intel and AMD is third

 

[Grim5]

They've stopped themselves mate, paper launch, scalped prices for the low/mid end parts that are available, high end 5900x/5950x out of stock everywhere.

I've got a 5950x no problem right at launch

 

[4K8KW10]

Actually Apple is TSMC's largest customer followed by Intel and AMD is third

This is not true - Apple, followed by AMD and Mediatek are the three largest with an outlook for AMD to become the largest in 2022.

Intel will be denied access to TSMC capacity.

 

[Destination]

Actually Apple is TSMC's largest customer followed by Intel and AMD is third

I should have stated at 7nm, which is what I meant. I believe thye remain the largest, or have become the largest customer at 7nm. I believe apple are at 5nm.

 

[Grim5]

I should have stated at 7nm, which is what I meant. I believe thye remain the largest, or have become the largest customer at 7nm. I believe apple are at 5nm.

I should have clarified my comment as well. The agreement Intel reportedly signed makes it TSMC's biggest 3nm customer, not its biggest 7nm or 5nm customer

 

[humbug]

I would like to clarify too, no one cares who has the thickest end of TSMC's Eggplant.

 

[Grim5]

Yeah, AMD shoots itself in the foot - either bad management and they can't relocate/use dies for the 12-core and 16-core SKUs, or simply the demand for the lower-end 8-core SKUs is much lower, so virtually every shop has them.
Either way - ugly by AMD.

there is a lot more stock of the 6 and 8 core coming in from amd, not a lot of 5950x and 5900x stock coming in. Most people are buying 5600x and 5800x

 

[philo-sofa]

Forgive my ignorance, but why can’t these big companies like Intel, AMD and Nvidia invest in producing their own wafers?

AMD spun off their fabs to stay afloat financially during the Bulldozer days. Intel still have theirs, but have failed at making anything smaller than 14nm for half a decade.

 

[smilingcrow]

TSMC are on a roll now, but it wasn't that long ago when they had a disastrous node of their own; was that 20nm?
Intel are having a much bigger slump than that now, but who knows how things will be in 3 years or so!
I'm curious to see where things will be in 5 years or so when the limits of Silicon may be reached.

Intel's issues are also related to architecture although their Fab issues compound that.
AMD should have a window of at least 3+ year to make hay.
They really need to maximize their profits and market share in that time.
If they can keep their top people I think they have a great chance.

 

[4K8KW10]

there is a lot more stock of the 6 and 8 core coming in from amd, not a lot of 5950x and 5900x stock coming in. Most people are buying 5600x and 5800x

This is not true. The best sellers are Ryzen 5 5600X, Core i5-10400, Ryzen 5 2600X, Ryzen 5 2600, Celeron G3930.

Mindfactory.de reports zero availability of Ryzen 9 5900X and Ryzen 9 5950X in January 2021. https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/commen...o+CPUs,+APUs,+GPUs,+and+other+fancy+silicon!)

This points to terrible mismanagement by AMD.