Alder Lake

Curlyriff · 11 Feb 2021 at 11:45

Freddie1980 said:
Years? Zen 4 might land Q4 this year or early 2022

It going to be Zen refresh this September I think with AM5 and Zen 4 next September I believe from what seeing. Most reason for that is that a Zen3 refresh with AM5 would give mobo makers a reason to get boards out and be able to port their BIOS on chips they already know otherwise and tweak etc. Meaning Zen 4 should theoretically have a smoother transition than dropping all at once.

4K8KW10 said:
2023 as earliest. Q4 2021 would be Zen 3 refresh Warhol.

Why would you think 2023 earliest, that would be a 3 year window since release of Zen 3 to get to Zen 4 and yet every previous they have been yearly. I get a delay because well everything right now but to suggest two years to get Zen 4 out seems very perplexing. Zen 5 would be September 2023 if they get back to trajectory and that is already assuming a 12 month delay to their whole release timeline. It isn't like Zen2 refresh stopped Zen3 release either.

Jay85 · 11 Feb 2021 at 11:58

No one will care if you can't buy the damn things

smilingcrow · 11 Feb 2021 at 12:18

Curlyriff said:
Most reason for that is that a Zen3 refresh with AM5 would give mobo makers a reason to get boards out and be able to port their BIOS on chips they already know otherwise and tweak etc. Meaning Zen 4 should theoretically have a smoother transition than dropping all at once.

As I said a few days ago, it means they can also produce both 5nm and 7nm chips for AM5 which helps to ramp the platform.
We could even see some 7nm 6000 series chips (re)branded as 7000 series, as Ryzen 5000 U-Series are a mix of Zen 2 and Zen 3.

Dave2150 · 11 Feb 2021 at 13:22

Jay85 said:
No one will care if you can't buy the damn things

+1, doesn't matter how good Zen3 or Zen 4 are, AMD can't afford their own fabs (manufacturing) and so can never make enough to satisfy demand.

Intel is much better value than Ryzen currently, which I find absolutely hilarious.

pete910 · 11 Feb 2021 at 17:12

Dave2150 said:
+1, doesn't matter how good Zen3 or Zen 4 are, AMD can't afford their own fabs (manufacturing) and so can never make enough to satisfy demand.

Intel is much better value than Ryzen currently, which I find absolutely hilarious.

Seriously dude, lose the grudge you seem to have against AMD, Why are you not stating the same in Nvidia threads with their lack of stock of 3000 series cards?
Why are you not stating the same for the big car manufactures as they have supply issues too ?

Guess it's one rule for one .......

smilingcrow · 11 Feb 2021 at 17:37

pete910 said:
Seriously dude, lose the grudge you seem to have against AMD, Why are you not stating the same in Nvidia threads with their lack of stock of 3000 series cards?
Why are you not stating the same for the big car manufactures as they have supply issues too ?

Guess it's one rule for one .......

I agree that it's a bit tedious.
But the point he is making is that Intel have their own fabs whilst AMD don't.
Whereas the GPU situation is different because neither of them have fabs.
Of course it is ironic to be praising Intel for having fabs considering the royal mess they are in.

r22snapper · 11 Feb 2021 at 19:19

Intel have obviously briefed the latest attack line to Dave

Alex h · 11 Feb 2021 at 20:30

r22snapper said:
Intel have obviously briefed the latest attack line to Dave

Yeh i asked him the other day if he had inside information he never answered that question hes in love with intel

cliffy · 11 Feb 2021 at 20:35

Dave2150 said:
Ryzen 6000 will also be a paper launch most likely.

Poor AMD, not able to afford their own fabs means they have to beg for scraps from TSMC. Really sad fact, they have great designs, they just don't have enough wafers to make enough CPU's to satisfy demand. Sigh.

Cause Intel havingthere own Fab has worked out really well for them the last few years. I think this year there are many mitigating cirumstances to the supply problem and i suspect they already have deals in place for the 6000 series wafers

Your anti AMD posts are getting a little on the pathetic side now and making little sense. Granted right now i am sitting in the red side of the fence but that will change when Intel eventually overtake AMD, which it will one day and around and around we go. Just buy whatever is best for your needs. All the talk of Poor AMD cannot aford there own Fabs is just sad and a desperate attemt to put AMD down for whatever your reaon might be.

If you are an enthusiast enjoy the tech, whom ever makes it

Dave2150 · 12 Feb 2021 at 11:00

cliffy said:
Cause Intel havingthere own Fab has worked out really well for them the last few years. I think this year there are many mitigating cirumstances to the supply problem and i suspect they already have deals in place for the 6000 series wafers

Your anti AMD posts are getting a little on the pathetic side now and making little sense. Granted right now i am sitting in the red side of the fence but that will change when Intel eventually overtake AMD, which it will one day and around and around we go. Just buy whatever is best for your needs. All the talk of Poor AMD cannot aford there own Fabs is just sad and a desperate attemt to put AMD down for whatever your reaon might be.

If you are an enthusiast enjoy the tech, whom ever makes it

Intel having their own fabs has worked out really well, even in the last few years. Intel's revenue is up - they're actually able to supply their CPU's to end users, or businesses, in quantities that dwarf what AMD can provide.

TSMC's 7nm is far superior to Intel's 14nm, but supply is massively limited. This is the reason for the effective paper launch of Ryzen 5000 series - you still can't find a 5900x or 5950x in stock. The parts you can find, the 5600 and 5800, are at massively scalped prices, due to the severe lack of supply.

Any person of intelligence would prefer to be in Intel's position, where they can actually provide and sell millions of CPU's each year, verses AMD's situation where they have great CPU designs, but have to beg/scrounge TSMC to give them more wafers to make said CPU's.

Take a look at Intel's revenues for the last few quarters, sales are up

Minstadave · 12 Feb 2021 at 12:16

Dave2150 said:
Intel having their own fabs has worked out really well, even in the last few years. Intel's revenue is up - they're actually able to supply their CPU's to end users, or businesses, in quantities that dwarf what AMD can provide.

TSMC's 7nm is far superior to Intel's 14nm, but supply is massively limited. This is the reason for the effective paper launch of Ryzen 5000 series - you still can't find a 5900x or 5950x in stock. The parts you can find, the 5600 and 5800, are at massively scalped prices, due to the severe lack of supply.

Any person of intelligence would prefer to be in Intel's position, where they can actually provide and sell millions of CPU's each year, verses AMD's situation where they have great CPU designs, but have to beg/scrounge TSMC to give them more wafers to make said CPU's.

Take a look at Intel's revenues for the last few quarters, sales are up

Awwww it's cute. Bless him. Like a puppy peeing on the carpet, annoying but forgivable.

Intel have had substantial shortages over recent years despite owning their own fabs. Two seconds on Google shows the 5800X is widely in stock at RRP or a few quid over. Intel can only dream about making 12 or 16 core mainstream chips.

The Dave2150 fantasy continues.

cliffy · 12 Feb 2021 at 16:08

Dave2150 said:
Intel having their own fabs has worked out really well, even in the last few years. Intel's revenue is up - they're actually able to supply their CPU's to end users, or businesses, in quantities that dwarf what AMD can provide.

TSMC's 7nm is far superior to Intel's 14nm, but supply is massively limited. This is the reason for the effective paper launch of Ryzen 5000 series - you still can't find a 5900x or 5950x in stock. The parts you can find, the 5600 and 5800, are at massively scalped prices, due to the severe lack of supply.

Any person of intelligence would prefer to be in Intel's position, where they can actually provide and sell millions of CPU's each year, verses AMD's situation where they have great CPU designs, but have to beg/scrounge TSMC to give them more wafers to make said CPU's.

Take a look at Intel's revenues for the last few quarters, sales are up

You do realise Intel have been struggling with chip shortages for about 2 years now don't you? Having their own fab hasnt helped with that

You do realise Intel are stuck on 14nm while others have gone past 14, 10 and are now on 7 with 5 nm announced. Having their own fab didnt help with that

Seriously though what is it with your hate for AMD and Love for Intel, it takes the term Fanboy to a whole new level

tommoT.Striker · 12 Feb 2021 at 16:43

Intel having their own fabs didn't work out for Bob Swan

smilingcrow · 12 Feb 2021 at 20:14

So when do TSMC expect to have new fabs online that are producing 5nm or 7nm chips?
Demand is so high right now and unless Samsung improve most are going to want to use TSMC for cutting edge nodes.
With Apple moving all products to ARM chips which will be fabbed at TSMC, things aren't getting better in terms of demand for their fabs.
With all the Intel speculation as well with regard to TSMC.
The Yanks are freaking out!

White House hastens to address global chip shortage:
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/02/white-house-scrambles-to-address-global-chip-shortage/

Regaining The Edge In U.S. Chip Manufacturing:
https://semiengineering.com/can-the-u-s-regain-its-edge-in-chip-manufacturing/

kitfit1 · 12 Feb 2021 at 20:38

"Intel has formed a new commercial entity to develop chiplet-based designs. Chiplets, which integrate dies in an advanced package, is emerging as a different way for the U.S. to remain competitive"

Maybe Intel had forgot that one of their comptetors had already done just 4 years ago. Or maybe 6GHZ on 14nm was a 24/7 goal ?

smilingcrow · 12 Feb 2021 at 20:57

kitfit1 said:
"Intel has formed a new commercial entity to develop chiplet-based designs. Chiplets, which integrate dies in an advanced package, is emerging as a different way for the U.S. to remain competitive"
Maybe Intel had forgot that one of their comptetors had already done just 4 years ago.

Depends on whether this refers to them offering this service to 3rd parties or not?
In which case the competition is TSMC, not AMD.
Intel's goals for interconnects etc are far beyond what TSMC/AMD are currently doing.
Whether they will be any good or if they can even manufacture them is another thing.
I wouldn't want to bet on Intel's manufacturing right now.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14211/intels-interconnected-future-chipslets-emib-foveros
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16021/intel-moving-to-chiplets-client-20-for-7nm

Grim5 · 12 Feb 2021 at 20:58

kitfit1 said:
"Intel has formed a new commercial entity to develop chiplet-based designs. Chiplets, which integrate dies in an advanced package, is emerging as a different way for the U.S. to remain competitive"

Maybe Intel had forgot that one of their comptetors had already done just 4 years ago. Or maybe 6GHZ on 14nm was a 24/7 goal ?

Classic Shintel, pretending that AMD hasnt had chiplets for years and trying to make the statement sound like they are first haha

kitfit1 · 12 Feb 2021 at 21:08

Grim5 said:
Classic Shintel, pretending that AMD hasnt had chiplets for years and trying to make the statement sound like they are first haha

Are you calling me a shintel ? :mad:

smilingcrow · 12 Feb 2021 at 21:45

Grim5 said:
Classic Shintel, pretending that AMD hasnt had chiplets for years and trying to make the statement sound like they are first haha

It's not about being first, it's about rolling out great chips year after year as AMD are doing now.
Intel used MCM with Pentium D ages ago but so what.
If Intel brings out decent chiplet designs in the future then who cares when Ryzen was introduced.
The winners are the companies that can deliver quality products over a long period at prices and volumes that make sense profit wise.
AMD are looking good, with the one potential issue being getting enough chips produced.
Fortunately, their 'chiplets with glue to go' policy is helping with that.

Grim5 · 12 Feb 2021 at 22:17

kitfit1 said:
Are you calling me a shintel ?

not you lol, Intel