Alienware announces the AW2725DF and AW3225QF (worlds first 4k 240hz and worlds first 1440p 360hz QD-OLED monitors - launches January 2024)

[Sc00p007]

When the vrr gamma shift that manifests in flickering was first reported to LG, they confirmed it to be inherent to Oled. They all have the issue. However, different hardware setups will experience it in different games due to it being directly linked to erratic framerates and frame drops. Eg In game x, users with a 1440p OLED and say a 4090 may report that there is no flickering but the same setup on a 4k screen will.

 

[TNA]

That's somewhat disappointing to know considering this is certified as Gysnc compatible!

Edit: if you look here you can see the monitor is listed as certified.

Even certified it can do it though. Like the Alienware I have does it too and that is certified ultimate gsync. Or should I day did it until a firmware upgrade almost two years after release as I recall. Wqs only on a few games I noticed it in the games menu. A non issue for me.

I am not 100% but having a physical chip in the monitor won't make a difference in this regard.

Said user above sounds like he just has a dodgy monitor or is just ultra sensitive to it perhaps.

 

[Leeroy605]

That's somewhat disappointing to know considering this is certified as Gysnc compatible!

Edit: if you look here you can see the monitor is listed as certified.

The ASUS 4K 240hz oled that's just been released was also on that list before the driver update came out, hope it's the same case for the Alienware and the driver update comes out soon.

 

[Darren1967]

If they were all like that surely it would be plastered all over the Internet and in reviews.

Not necessarily as both monitors are new, likely only shipped to a relatively small user base and of those using the monitors not everyone will be using VRR (G-SYNC or FreeSync) and even if they are then they may be using settings or framerates in specific games that is a non-issue for them. Many will possibly not notice it if they are using it in a bright room as opposed to a dark room, which is how I do 90% of my gaming so the flickering is hard not to notice.

Also, the professional reviews barely cover VRR in any depth, only mentioning if a monitor supports FreeSync and/or G-SYNC. The majority of them almost certainly do not test games properly. At best, they'll load up a few test games, check VRR works, put a tick in the checkbox and call it a day. It's the users that report these kinds of issues over time and from what I can tell from researching this issue there are a lot of forum posts from people reporting VRR flickering with OLED and QD-OLED displays, not just the Dell monitors. The question I have though is this flickering actually worse on the Dell monitors than other manufacturers because I have no way of knowing as this is my first OLED monitor. However, I have seen some VRR flickering in PS5 and Xbox Series X games on my 2019 LG B9 TV but not to the degree that I am seeing on the AW2725DF monitor. Then again I am sat much further away from my TV and it maxes out at 120 Hz.

My monitor supports 360 Hz so with technologies like NVIDIA's DLSS3 frame generation I can play games that have highly framerate variance because that is how this works. I bought a 360 Hz monitor not because I play competitive online games (I don't play any) but because I wanted to take full advantage of frame gen on my RTX 4080 as on my previous 165 Hz IPS monitor frame gen was capping out at 158 fps. Frame gen works brilliantly on this display, I can play games like Dakar Desert Rally at 180-240 fps with frame gen but these sort of games are more prone to showing VRR flicker.

I can't even use Fullscreen + Windowed for G-SYNC on my monitor, only Fullscreen, because if I do then I get a lot of flickering on the desktop wallpaper and this gets even worse if the taskbar appears or I open a window (on the desktop, not in my house!). As such, I am forced to use Fullscreen only for G-SYNC which means that any games that run in window mode will not use G-SYNC. It's a bit of a mess really. I really wish I had known how bad this issue was before buying the monitor because it is really the only thing I dislike about it. I play lots of games and rely on G-SYNC so I can max out the settings at 1440p on my RTX 4080 without worrying about judder or screen tearing.

 

[Spikey]

Even certified it can do it though. Like the Alienware I have does it too and that is certified ultimate gsync. Or should I day did it until a firmware upgrade almost two years after release as I recall. Wqs only on a few games I noticed it in the games menu. A non issue for me.

I am not 100% but having a physical chip in the monitor won't make a difference in this regard.

Said user above sounds like he just has a dodgy monitor or is just ultra sensitive to it perhaps.

I would like think it's a dodgy monitor, I've gone back to C2 for now and although it's there it's nowhere near the same level, even the Mrs just compared it (got them both plugged into my RT 4090 now for sim rig) said it's far worse on the alienware. As you've said it's something to expect but it's horrendous on my panel. I'll give the Asus a try when I can get hold of one. I've also tried dropping it down to 120hz to match the LG and it's still quite bad, it does reduce ever so slightly. Shame as I generally love the screen! Dell didn't even offer me a direct replacement, last years model then a refund. Very odd!

 

[opethdisciple]

When using these monitors do we use hdmi or dp?

I see people describing they have issues with the AW3225QF monitor and gsync.

 

[SpudMaster]

It's VRR related - so GSYNC in this case
Flickering will be worse the higher the refresh rate

I've not had the flickering that bad, only ever get it on loading screens but is GSYNC really necessary on a 240hz monitor? Genuinely interested, because GSYNC is mostly needed when your fps is between 30-80. After that tearing will become a non issue with a 240hz monitor. You won't get flicker between 40-80fps so no harm using GSYNC in those demanding games, but games that run closer to the 240fps range won't benefit from gsync anyway so may as well turn it off and lose the flicker..?

Or am I wrong? Maybe worth trying

I've used my AW2725DF with and without vrr. With vrr disabled I couldn't tell any difference then when enabled. No tearing. Going back to the CRT day you only really tended to get tearing when your fps exceeded your monitors refresh rate. When you refresh rate is 360hz that's not really an issue

I use my screen with vrr on though. I play games with locked 60fps, varying fps and locked 360fps and I've not seen any flick at all during gameplay. And very, very minimal in the odd loading screen or menu. Flicker was a big worry of mine before I got an oled monitor. Now I'm happy to say it's a non issue with my setup

 

[Grim5]

When the vrr gamma shift that manifests in flickering was first reported to LG, they confirmed it to be inherent to Oled. They all have the issue. However, different hardware setups will experience it in different games due to it being directly linked to erratic framerates and frame drops. Eg In game x, users with a 1440p OLED and say a 4090 may report that there is no flickering but the same setup on a 4k screen will.

There were all sorts of theories a few years ago and claims of how to fix it and what effects it and in the end it looks like there is no solution it will always be a problem for OLED

 

[opethdisciple]

There were all sorts of theories a few years ago and claims of how to fix it and what effects it and in the end it looks like there is no solution it will always be a problem for OLED

But surely if one has flickering they can send it back under warranty.

I know if I buy this I will tolerate no flickering whatsoever.

 

[z10m]

But surely if one has flickering they can send it back under warranty.

I know if I buy this I will tolerate no flickering whatsoever.

There will always be some vrr flicker on an oled display so warranty might not cover that.
You still have at least 14 days to return it if you find it’s too much for you.

 

[TNA]

But surely if one has flickering they can send it back under warranty.

I know if I buy this I will tolerate no flickering whatsoever.

I would rather the odd flicker in a game menu than a TN panel.

If you can tolerate a TN panel...

If I had spikey's issue that would be different. That just sounds like a dodgy monitor that needs replacing.

 

[Darren1967]

That's somewhat disappointing to know considering this is certified as Gysnc compatible!

Edit: if you look here you can see the monitor is listed as certified.

I've used my AW2725DF with and without vrr. With vrr disabled I couldn't tell any difference then when enabled. No tearing. Going back to the CRT day you only really tended to get tearing when your fps exceeded your monitors refresh rate. When you refresh rate is 360hz that's not really an issue

I use my screen with vrr on though. I play games with locked 60fps, varying fps and locked 360fps and I've not seen any flick at all during gameplay. And very, very minimal in the odd loading screen or menu. Flicker was a big worry of mine before I got an oled monitor. Now I'm happy to say it's a non issue with my setup

Screen tearing occurs because the graphics card is outputting frames that are not synced to the refresh rate of the display so parts of different images are displayed on the screen during each screen refresh. During motion, one frame will not be the same as the other leading to the 'tear' effect, which is misaligned parts of two images being displayed. This occurs whether the framerate is above or below the refresh rate but it depends on where it occurs as to how noticeable it is. I am very sensitive to screen tearing so I tend to notice it even if it is very slight.

Most console games that have some screen tearing tend to use 'adapative' v-sync, which allows the game to run with v-sync as long as hits a perfect 60 (or 30) fps but any drops below result in v-sync being disabled temporarily and screen tearing being visible until the game can again lock to 60 (or 30) fps at which point v-sync is re-enabled. Some developers managed to keep the tearing in the top part of the screen so it isn't as obvious but on PC, if you disable v-sync, then you will always get screen tearing unless you cap the game's framerate and never drop below it.

My guess is that you just don't notice it but any game with an uncapped framerate and v-sync off will always have screen tearing. It is just the nature of how graphics cards work when they are not synchronised, using v-sync, with the refresh rate of your display.

 

[Darren1967]

But surely if one has flickering they can send it back under warranty.

I know if I buy this I will tolerate no flickering whatsoever.

If the issue is with OLED and QD-OLED then the manufacturer could argue that the flickering is 'normal' for that panel type and not honour a replacement.

I suspect that if I contacted Dell about my AW2725DF having VRR flicker that they'd come back to me and claim it is because the monitor is not officially certified by NVIDIA as G-SYNC Compatible. I could almost guarantee that would be their response.

It's difficult to engage how prevalent this issue is because three different people will have three different experiences on the same monitor and how annoying it is depends on them and what games they are playing. It doesn't change the fact that the flickering is still there though.

I am new to OLED/QD-OLED monitors so have absolutely no idea if there is such a monitor out there that can plays all games with G-SYNC enabled without any flickering at all. I am very curious because NVIDIA's certification actually mentions checking for flickering so, that being the case, I am puzzled as to how any OLED or QD-OLED can have a G-SYNC Compatibility certification because they should fail that requirement, right?

Also, I checked the NVIDIA monitor G-SYNC compatibility list here: https://www.nvidia.com/en-gb/geforce/products/g-sync-monitors/specs/ and saw that the AW3225QF is listed but with a Driver Needed column on the far right (you have to scroll to this part for some reason) that states support is coming in an 'upcoming driver'. This is what confuses me because does that mean that a graphics driver with monitor support can actually reduce or eliminate this flickering when using VRR? I cannot find any conclusive answer to that but if that NVIDIA chart is correct and there is no driver for these new monitors yet then maybe that is why they are flickering so badly with VRR? I would have expected Dell to have known that though.

 

[TNA]

If the issue is with OLED and QD-OLED then the manufacturer could argue that the flickering is 'normal' for that panel type and not honour a replacement.

I suspect that if I contacted Dell about my AW2725DF having VRR flicker that they'd come back to me and claim it is because the monitor is not officially certified by NVIDIA as G-SYNC Compatible. I could almost guarantee that would be their response.

It's difficult to engage how prevalent this issue is because three different people will have three different experiences on the same monitor and how annoying it is depends on them and what games they are playing. It doesn't change the fact that the flickering is still there though.

I am new to OLED/QD-OLED monitors so have absolutely no idea if there is such a monitor out there that can plays all games with G-SYNC enabled without any flickering at all. I am very curious because NVIDIA's certification actually mentions checking for flickering so, that being the case, I am puzzled as to how any OLED or QD-OLED can have a G-SYNC Compatibility certification because they should fail that requirement, right?

Nah. My monitor is nvidia G-Sync Ultimate so the best it can get and it still had flicker in a few games menus that were dark. As mentioned before a firmware update sorted this eventually, but that was almost 2 years after buying the monitor

It did not bother me though. As long as not in game and not easily noticeable who cares? Using TN, IPS or VA you are dealing with things much worse than flickering in menus

 

[Darren1967]

Nah. My monitor is nvidia G-Sync Ultimate so the best it can get and it still had flicker in a few games menus that were dark. As mentioned before a firmware update sorted this eventually, but that was almost 2 years after buying the monitor

It did not bother me though. As long as not in game and not easily noticeable who cares? Using TN, IPS or VA you are dealing with things much worse than flickering in menus

I am playing Dragon's Dogma 2 on my AW2725DF with HDR enabled and I not only see horrid flickering with G-SYNC enabled in the loading screens but I also see it in the game menus and, more subtle but it's still there, during darker scenes in the game too. Same for Alone in the Dark, another game which has lots of dark scenes.

Maybe I am just extremely sensitive to it but I do most of my gaming at night with the lights off so any flickering is much more noticeable under those conditions. And playing games in a dark room is the suggested way to use these QD-OLED monitors anyway as the lack of screen polarizer means that the screen takes on a purple hue with elevated black levels when there is any ambient lighting in front of the screen.

Personally, I would like to see more people discussing the VRR flickering issue along with sites like Digital Foundry and Hardware Unboxed doing in-depth coverage of what the issue is, what causes it and how it be fixed/minimised or whatever. Otherwise, as far as I am concerned, it seems like I own a faulty monitor because I have absolutely no idea if what I am seeing is 'normal' or not. In comparison to be my previous ASUS PG279Q G-SYNC monitor though it is definitely *not* normal...

There is so much misinformation on this topic out there not helped by the fact NVIDIA certify these displays and apparently think the issue is okay! This is what baffles me.

 

[TNA]

I am playing Dragon's Dogma 2 on my AW2725DF with HDR enabled and I not only see horrid flickering with G-SYNC enabled in the loading screens but I also see it in the game menus and, more subtle but it's still there, during darker scenes in the game too. Same for Alone in the Dark, another game which has lots of dark scenes.

Maybe I am just extremely sensitive to it but I do most of my gaming at night with the lights off so any flickering is much more noticeable under those conditions. And playing games in a dark room is the suggested way to use these QD-OLED monitors anyway as the lack of screen polarizer means that the screen takes on a purple hue with elevated black levels when there is any ambient lighting in front of the screen.

Personally, I would like to see more people discussing the VRR flickering issue along with sites like Digital Foundry and Hardware Unboxed doing in-depth coverage of what the issue is, what causes it and how it be fixed/minimised or whatever. Otherwise, as far as I am concerned, it seems like I own a faulty monitor because I have absolutely no idea if what I am seeing is 'normal' or not. In comparison to be my previous ASUS PG279Q G-SYNC monitor though it is definitely *not* normal...

There is so much misinformation on this topic out there not helped by the fact NVIDIA certify these displays and apparently think the issue is okay! This is what baffles me.

I wonder if it will also get a firmware upgrade at some point. I am in no rush to upgrade to be honest, so hopefully it does in the next 6 months as it sounds a lot worse on this Alienware monitor.

 

[Darren1967]

The AW2725DF will get a firmware update in April to add a DSC (display stream compression) on/off option according to the Dell Forum so hopefully it will also include fixes for some of the other issues too.

 

[TNA]

Sounds good. Hopefully it will be in great shape for around black friday sales

 

[Sc00p007]

I am playing Dragon's Dogma 2 on my AW2725DF with HDR enabled and I not only see horrid flickering with G-SYNC enabled in the loading screens but I also see it in the game menus and, more subtle but it's still there, during darker scenes in the game too. Same for Alone in the Dark, another game which has lots of dark scenes.

Maybe I am just extremely sensitive to it but I do most of my gaming at night with the lights off so any flickering is much more noticeable under those conditions. And playing games in a dark room is the suggested way to use these QD-OLED monitors anyway as the lack of screen polarizer means that the screen takes on a purple hue with elevated black levels when there is any ambient lighting in front of the screen.

Personally, I would like to see more people discussing the VRR flickering issue along with sites like Digital Foundry and Hardware Unboxed doing in-depth coverage of what the issue is, what causes it and how it be fixed/minimised or whatever. Otherwise, as far as I am concerned, it seems like I own a faulty monitor because I have absolutely no idea if what I am seeing is 'normal' or not. In comparison to be my previous ASUS PG279Q G-SYNC monitor though it is definitely *not* normal...

There is so much misinformation on this topic out there not helped by the fact NVIDIA certify these displays and apparently think the issue is okay! This is what baffles me.

This is what LG released in a statement to the cause:

"Gamma for OLED is optimised and fixed for 120 Hz by establishing a fixed charging time for OLED sub-pixels. VRR is used when the frame rate is less than 120 Hz. When the OLED TV uses framerates less than 120 Hz, the gamma curve is inconsistent with the frame rate. For example, a 40 Hz frame rate is longer than 120 Hz frame rate. Therefore, the lower frame rates results in sub pixels that are overcharged, causing flickering of dark grey images, which is noticeable for dark images rather than bright ones, because human eyes are more sensitive to low grey colours"

They later said that only a hardware solution can fix it.

Another way the issue manifests - go to lagom black level Web page. View the first few squares at native refresh. Then set your screen to 60hz and look at the same few squares. You will see they are slightly raised vs native.

I see a few posts claiming that vrr flicker was fixed on the 3423dw via driver or firmware, but it definitely isn't.

 

[SpudMaster]

My guess is that you just don't notice it but any game with an uncapped framerate and v-sync off will always have screen tearing. It is just the nature of how graphics cards work when they are not synchronised, using v-sync, with the refresh rate of your display.

It's not that didn't notice it I was purposely looking for it because that was the reason I disabled vvr to see if it was needed when you've got 360hz refresh. My conclusion was not really but seen as flicker isn't an issue either I renabled it.

Maybe you have a faulty screen . You did mention you had flicker in Windows didn't you? That shouldn't be happening