Amanda Knoxx retrial

I do like that you are conveniently forgetting the court of law which found her innocent.

As for courts of law, your evidence that they got it right, is that a court of law found her guilty, ignoring the fact that IN EVERY COUNTRY, courts get cases wrong, it's always happened, it always will happen, they aren't infallible making your assumption that being found guilty automatically means she is certainly guilty an absolute truth, silly at best, then we get back to the case in which the most effort was expended by the defence, was found in their favour. In the latest case, which was a publicity stunt, the defence wasn't particularly significant.

Once again, READ THE EVIDENCE, your opinion holds no weight if you refuse to comment on the case frankly.

Again, the police's story is she cleaned up a room of two peoples dna evidence, leaving the third persons completely intact....... it is literally impossible. Defending a prosecutor and assuming the case is fine and above reproach, when the defining factor of their case is so fundamentally stupid as to make it laughable.... makes you look silly.


If you want to ignore the rest, go back to this one question. How did she clean two peoples evidence from a room, yet leave the thirds intact, with precisely zero evidence of cleaning in that room?

I'm not ignoring anything, 2 courts found her guilty 1 found her not guilty. And I wouldn't normally responsed to the meaninglessness drival but since your putting words into my mouth I'll take a bite.

Merideth suffered 47 cuts and bruises inculding bruising on her elbows which you would expect to find if someone were being restrained from behind which means that there has to be one or more people attacking her from the front.

I also don't by into people's explanations for Knoxx and Sollecito's behaviour at the police station 'people behaviour in different ways to this sort of thing' just doesn't cut the it imo. Most people would be upset if they found a dead body with blood all over the room so hugging, kissing laughing (and someone mentioned she was doing kart wheels af some point) to me suggest that both of them don't know ghe correct emotional response to this type of event. This is all my opinion and I'm no physiologist but I know nobody I knew was laughing when my cousin was murdered.
 
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As I understand it, the evidence of multiple attackers is mainly down to a lack of defensive wounds on Meredith. I would suggest that not putting up much of a fight because someone took you by surprise with a knife to your throat is an equally plausible explanation.

Without multiple attackers, I would suggest the entire case against anyone but Guede falls apart.

Well the boyfriend, Knox's, has been found guilty based on a single piece of DNA evidence on a bra clasp, the hook was noted when they took pictures of the room, but they forgot to collect it. A month and a half later after the thing had been kicked across the room 4 feet, with a pile of cloths/rags on top of it.... they found this DNA evidence........

This guy has been convicted of murder almost exclusively down to DNA "evidence" which was moved around, trampled under foot god knows how many times and retrieved 46 days later......

There was precisely no other DNA evidence at all of him in that room, on the body, anywhere else on the bra. So apparently during a struggle in which he helped murder someone, the only thing he touched was a piece of metal.... which was extremely tainted evidence, but he's guilty of murder.

The case is farcical. It literally does not matter if they murdered her or not, no reasonable court would consider that enough evidence to put someone in jail for any amount of time. He had been in the apartment, they had picked up evidence of his dna elsewhere in the apartment as you'd expect. With probably dozens of people over 46 days walking around the sole piece of evidence they found of him in that room, no blood, no dna on the body, just one solitary piece on something they kicked around for 46 days?

Anyone who thinks it's a fair trial or good work by the police/prosecution is demented.
 
I'm not ignoring anything, 2 courts found her guilty 1 found her not guilty. And I wouldn't normally responsed to the meaninglessness drival but since your putting words into my mouth I'll take a bite.

Merideth suffered 47 cuts and bruises inculding bruising on her elbows which you would expect to find if someone were being restrained from behind which means that there has to be one or more people attacking her from the front.

No it doesn't.......... in fact, the evidence proves it doesn't as well. But at first indication because she has bruises on different parts of her body means more than one person was holding her? Or maybe Guede didn't have her in the same position in the same single place the entire time... oh, theory debunked. It COULD be a sign more than one person held her, but you can't say it DOES mean there was. There is any number of situations in which it could happen.

But again, in restraining her to the point they left bruises, not a single shred of physical evidence was left by 2 of the 3 people, but the third person, the one whose DNA is EVERYWHERE and has confessed, his DNA is everywhere.

The very absence of their DNA and the evidence of Guede everywhere(making it literally impossible for them to have cleaned her) instantly points to one assailant.

I also don't by into people's explanations for Knoxx and Sollecito's behaviour at the police station 'people behaviour in different ways to this sort of thing' just doesn't cut the it imo. Most people would be upset if they found a dead body with blood all over the room so hugging, kissing laughing (and someone mentioned she was doing kart wheels af some point) to me suggest that both of them don't know ghe correct emotional response to this type of event. This is all my opinion and I'm no physiologist but I know nobody I knew was laughing when my cousin was murdered.


No this is the media, I've seen people laugh, cry, hug and kiss at funerals, so all these people were evil? You know what most normal people do when someone dies, they feel bad, and they remember and talk about said person, sometimes those are funny stories, sometimes sad, sometimes nothing. LIkewise it's an exceptionally common response when you feel sadness over loss to hold other people you love closer, heightened emotions work all ways.

What you're buying into is a media who will take 50k photo's and post the three where someone is smiling... and proclaim her a psycho.

Read the evidence and explain the complete lack of physical evidence. The very story the police are pushing, that they were so heavily involved, is what makes the story insane. If they stood watching from the doorway after paying Guede to kill them, that is significantly more plausible, but that they restrained, smacked her about, held her down and stabbed her is simply not possible based on all the evidence available.

That is why people are laughing at the Italians, because their own evidence completes disproves their own stupid theory.

They also refused point blank to provide pretty standard details like, which samples were tested where and at what time(because cross contamination happens a lot and people shouldn't be jailed for it), the defence refused, they were forced to admit on the stand through video evidence that people touched this bra clasp before it was finally entered into evidence 46 days later than it should have been, after it was moved around the floor and pushed into contact with other things.
 
Amanda Knox is one hot tomale...that she can look pretty good during the trial and under that amount of stress just illustrates that.

Oh, and going on the available evidence, despite the Italian shenanigans, she sounds innocent to me, a bit weird, but innocent all the same.
 
As I understand it, the evidence of multiple attackers is mainly down to a lack of defensive wounds on Meredith. I would suggest that not putting up much of a fight because someone took you by surprise with a knife to your throat is an equally plausible explanation.

Without multiple attackers, I would suggest the entire case against anyone but Guede falls apart.

Multiple attackers isn't just down to the autopsy/expert witnesses but also the presence of footprints... Guede's footprints going directly from Kercher's bedroom to the front door, the door being locked but without his footprints indicating that he turned around + the front door being left unlocked. Female footprint on the pillow, the boyfriend's bare footprint with Kercher's blood in the bathroom, the seemingly staged break in via a high window that would be a rather odd choice for a would be burglar... Bit of an odd burglary where nothing is stolen, just some clothes thrown around, laptop left untouched. Boyfriends DNA on the bra clasp, bra was removed after the killing and the body was moved for some inexplicable reason... then the door locked (supposedly by a burglar who did so without turning round and who went directly to the front door and left that unlocked) the first appeal put forth some hypothesis regarding possible DNA contamination, this has since been rejected in the recent appeal.

The main problem with this trial and the coverage - aside from the various myths put out by the Knoxx PR team regarding 'interrogations' etc.. is that without a smoking gun and clear picture of what happened then it can be spun into the big media circus. One guy has already confessed, that gave him the fast track trial - the US public are used to deals/plea bargains, so that's been spun into him having an incentive to blame the other two too, this isn't however the case. Innocent people don't tend to need to lie about their whereabouts when they're not, at that point, even suspects. Knoxx and her boyfriend have consistently lied through this whole trial. You don't forget where you were last night when asked the next day. When the boyfriend was told that Kercher's DNA was on the knife the police had he even made up a story about how they'd been cooking and she'd cut herself with it... it was found in his apartment which Kercher had never visited... We'll never likely know exactly what happened that night, but it seems rather likely Knoxx and her boyfriend were involved in some capacity.
 
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the double jeopardy/extradition doesn't seem to be quite so clear cut either


rather it seems it will likely be down to political will in the end
 
Myth: Amanda Knox's statement was false or coerced after a long interrogation

Not true. Knox's interrogation was at most two hours long, but realistically less than an hour, from 12:30am to 1:30am. Sollecito was called to the police station that night and Knox accompanied him, waiting in the hall with her homework. Sollecito was being asked about some inconsistencies in his earlier statements, causing him to now tell the police he had lied at Knox's request and the truth was they had parted company at 9:00pm and she did not return to his apartment until 1:00am. The police had been intercepting their conversations that week in which they frequently refer to a third person -- while they were unsure of the roles they felt that Knox was at least covering for someone, so when Sollecito said Knox went out, the police seized the opportunity to ask Knox about this.

They telephoned the interpreter at 11:30 to say they would require her services; Anna Donnino arrived at 12:30am. In the meantime Knox was with the police making lists of Meredith's acquaintances, drawing maps, et cetera. Likely Knox was nervous but not as a result of anything the police were doing. When Donnino arrived she was seated next to Knox at a table across from two police officers, who challenged her about her text messages. It was then that she said she was at the cottage and began to accuse Patrick Lumumba.

Because the statement had been prepared, typed and signed by 1:45am, realistically Knox implicated herself and Lumumba within minutes of learning Sollecito had withdrawn her alibi. The text message represented an easy out for Knox, a way to concede what she suspected the police already knew without admitting any wrongdoing. She, Sollecito, and Lumumba were arrested that night. It is frequently suggested that the non-existence of a recording of this interrogation proves it was abusive; in truth, the police officers, the interpreter, and Knox all relate the same sequence of events, Knox herself doing so in a conversation which was recorded.

Knox's own account of that evening, written to her lawyers a few days after the event, is also worth reading (see Amanda Knox's letters to her lawyers). She makes it clear that she and Sollecito arrived at the police station at "around 10:30pm or 11pm" and goes on to describe the things that happened before the formal questioning began, again supporting a considerable elapsed time. Although she was certainly not playing down the unpleasantness of the police questioning, she nevertheless makes absolutely no claim of being denied food, drink or toilet breaks, which are other details that people have added to myth in subsequent retellings.

Myth: Knox's human rights were violated because the police did not give her a lawyer or an official interpreter

Not true. At around 11 pm on November 5, 2007, Knox was questioned as a witness.[13] She had a right to a lawyer if she so wished, but there was no obligation for the police to provide one. She was provided with an interpreter, Anna Donnino, who gave evidence at Knox's trial.[14] Knox signed a formal statement at 01:45 am, placing herself at the crime scene:[15] from this point she could not be interviewed without a lawyer, because she was now a suspect. The interview was therefore terminated. At 05:45 am she made a further voluntary statement. These statements were subsequently the subject of a Supreme Court ruling. The SC did not rule that her human rights had been violated, nor that the statements were illegal. In fact, they ruled that the statements made while Knox was properly a suspect but being treated as a witness were inadmissable for the murder charge, but they were admitted as evidence for the calunnia charge.[16]


Myth: The DNA evidence was contaminated or faulty

Not True The Scientific police processed approximately 400 case items and extracted DNA profiles from roughly 225. It has been commonly repeated that the DNA evidence in this case was contaminated or in some way faulty if it incriminates Knox and Sollecito, but not Guede. This boilerplate defense claim dates back to the earliest hearings, and it has failed to convince a series of courts for lack of logic or substantiation. The Hellmann-appointed DNA experts reviewed only two items out of dozens in this case, the knife and the bra clasp. In the case of the knife, the experts advanced these main complaints, in line with defense argumentation before the Massei and Micheli courts:

That the negative TMB test on the knife should have caused the lab technician to stop testing, because the sample was probably not blood. TMB detects blood but not tissue; as the material was lodged in a crevice it seems likely it is solid matter;
That lab contamination could not be ruled out, claiming that negative control tests had not been performed by the lab between items although the records of these important controls had been filed with the court years prior. Vecchiotti further conceded on cross-examination that the 6-day interval since the testing of the last Kercher item was a virtual guarantee against lab contamination with respect to the knife.[17]
That LCN DNA typing is itself untrustworthy, quoting a 2009 article in the Croatian Medical Journal by Bruce Budowle.
Finally, the experts offer that a sample tested once is unreliable, scientifically speaking, and the evidence should be excluded on this basis. For this reason of non-repeatability Judge Hellmann also declined to order the testing of the newly-discovered third human trace on the blade, since it too is estimated to be small, reasoning that if one single test is not reliable, two are no better.

Turning to the bra clasp, the reviewers affirmed Sollecito's profile on the hooks in a Sollecito/Kercher mix, but suggested that its collection during the second pass meant contamination could not be ruled out as an explanation. (During this second pass two items with Guede profiles, the purse and the sweatshirt, were also collected.) They did not explain how the passage of time in a sealed crime scene would cause the clasp to become contaminated in this way, nor did they identify a source of so much Sollecito DNA, his only other genetic trace in the house being on a cigarette butt in the kitchen, mixed with Knox's (this was removed on November 3). By way of explanation reviewer Conti only said "anything is possible." In other words, the Hellmann court held contamination to be a probable explanation for the trace on the clasp without identifying a likely route or even source. The Supreme Court, in overturning Hellmann's ruling, was especially harsh regarding the lack of logic on this point, calling it completely unmoored from scientific reasoning.


Myth: Knox was arrested/convicted because she turned cartwheels at the police station

Not true. Knox was arrested because she gave the police a statement saying that she was present at the cottage at the time of the murder.[15] The other person who she said was present (Patrick Lumumba) was also arrested. This would be standard police practice anywhere in the world. There is no evidence that Knox's strange behaviour, such as turning cartwheels, played any part in the judicial process. Judge Massei gave very detailed written reasons for Knox's and Sollecito's conviction, and there is no mention of cartwheels.[18]
 
I can't believe that some people think Amanda Knox is hot :eek:

I hope they do find out who did it.
 
...to me suggest that both of them don't know ghe correct emotional response to this type of event. ..

There is no correct emotional response. Just because you like to see a certain emotional response doesn't make it correct.

If a child gets run over in front of my house, I might smile, or laugh, or be sad. Neither of them are correct nor incorrect.

to suggest that there is a correct response if imposing your views on how you believe you'd react onto someone else who may or may not share your views.
 
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and someone mentioned she was doing kart wheels af some point

She was doing yoga. Probably to relax. After being questioned for hours without a lawyer. And are you serious: her guilt rests on the fact that she didn't behave the way you expect her to behave? You realise that you know **** all about how people under stress behave, right? That stressed people do all sorts of odd things? This isn't news: it's been known since people started studying people under stress. Anyone who has ever been through a stressful event will remember at least one thing they they did which they later recall and wonder: "WTF did I do that for?" So yes, her behaviour is entirely consistent with an innocent person's.
 
The main problem with this trial and the coverage - aside from the various myths put out by the Knoxx PR team regarding 'interrogations' etc..


And you think that the Italian Police have been pushing out propaganda? Where do you suppose all these leaks about evidence were coming from before the trial?

Also: why is it odd that murderer fleeing the scene didn't take anything? I would imagine he was keen to get the hell away as quickly as possible, and not take anything which might incriminate him.
 
She was doing yoga. Probably to relax. After being questioned for hours without a lawyer. And are you serious: her guilt rests on the fact that she didn't behave the way you expect her to behave?

Exactly, it makes no sense because doing cartwheels in a police station isn't what you'd expect of a murderer, either. Infact it isn't what you'd expect of anyone with any involvement or otherwise therefore it surely isn't relevant to anything.
 
Ah taking something out of context when its obvious what the poster meant. You an Italian prosecutor or journalist by any chance? ;)
 
Also: why is it odd that murderer fleeing the scene didn't take anything? I would imagine he was keen to get the hell away as quickly as possible, and not take anything which might incriminate him.

The whole break in was odd from the odd choice on entry point - a window which isn't easily accessible, glass on the ledge but not on the ground below... not only has the burglar not attempted to steal anything but has basically thrown a bunch of clothes around. If he was trying to get away from the scene as quickly as possible why spend time there cleaning up, moving the body, removing the bra etc...
 
This condescending tone towards the Italian justice system is pathetic. "Oh no, there were some famous errors in the Italians' system, it must be all rotten!".. as if there aren't errors in UK or US justice systems.

The verdict was decided by two Courts of Law so excuse me for having more trust in judges rather than some wannabe "expert" in newspapers or forums.

The murder happened in Italy, not a third world country so get off your high horse and accept the reality: she is guilty.

Italy's justice system has widespread corruption. Only last month did the courts allow terrorists to go uninvestigated after they blew up an airliner, and instead ruled in direct contradiction to the independent investigation by top professionals. Italy is the 3rd world of justice, where the courts ignore the expert testimony and make up their own facts.
 
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