Soldato
Thanks for your estimate.
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AMD 7nm GPU News and Rumours 2018/2019
- Thread starter Beren
- Start date
I still think that the 590-replacement with Navi architecture will be GTX 1080 Ti / RTX 2070 territory.
After all, they can double the transistors going down from 14/12nm to 7nm.
AMD are not stupid.
If Sony is selling a PS5 with 1080 perf GPU (of AMD's own making, lol) for, let's say £400, then AMD aren't going to try to sell a 1080 perf Navi for more than that. Also the Vega 56 will be <£400 without special discounts by then, and V56 also offers ~1070Ti perf right now.
Navi isn't going to make perf/$ worse now, is it? They'd be mad to try to make 1070Ti/Vega 56 perf *more* expensive than before, lols.
The PS5 will be an APU, Ryzen + Navi on a single die. A discrete Navi card should be massively better.
Soldato
Vega could well be EOL by then. Lots of manufacturers stopped selling them already.
OK well let's say you guys are right and Navi is 1080 perf (only) for £500 or so.
In that case I'll be diverting 100% of my PC upgrade funds to PS5 and I'll just use my PC for indie games and browsing.
I personally think that would be a massive fail on AMD's part and it's not what I'm expecting at all.
I still think 1070 perf for £200+ and 1080 perf for £300+
e: If anything I think I'm being a bit cautious/pessimistic with my Navi predictions.
In that case I'll be diverting 100% of my PC upgrade funds to PS5 and I'll just use my PC for indie games and browsing.
I personally think that would be a massive fail on AMD's part and it's not what I'm expecting at all.
I still think 1070 perf for £200+ and 1080 perf for £300+
e: If anything I think I'm being a bit cautious/pessimistic with my Navi predictions.
Read the post of mine that you quoted. I was talking about price for 1080 perf. Navi might have higher performing variants but our info so far does not suggest this.
The post that you quoted was responding to
Who evidently thinkings Vega56/1080 perf is going to cost more with Navi.
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Soldato
They built one 15 months ago, Vega 64
People said that about nVidia's 20 series and look what happened.
Soldato
Depends on how you measure performance. GCN was meant to get AMD graphics cards into data centers and as such the focus isn't on gaming. If Navi uses super simd patent they applied for several year ago all that could change as alongside being developed for the PS5 it should be very much a gaming focused chip.
Don
Navi is still GCN as far as has been rumoured
EDIT:
Depends where you read
EDIT:
Depends where you read
A lot will depend on the price of the consoles.
However, even if AMD is in both the next-gen Xbox and the next-gen PlayStation, I still can't see how they benefit from forcing PC gamers away from the platform (via spiralling costs).
And a (2019/2020) card which is only 1080 perf and costs £450-£500+ will do just that. Even if they manage a 1080Ti perf Navi card, anything >£500 even for that level of performance is just a kick in the balls, given how many gens have come and gone since the 1080Ti.
And the above scenario would send a strong signal that PC performance has stagnated completely. The days of getting more perf for the same money each new gen would be truly dead.
If the consoles offer a large perf jump to 1070/1080 levels, that will be more than sufficient for mid-range gamers to make the switch.
So the Navi release you guys are predicting will simply be another nail in the coffin of PC gaming. It would be a big mistake if the new consoles are strong 4k contenders.
Soldato
Bear in mind, @FoxEye that Navi is arguably a "stop-gap" product in its own right.
Even though it's built on 7nm, it's still based on GCN. It may be a lean machine with all of Vega's compute stuff ripped out and paired with GDDR6, but there's only so far GCN can go. Small die with proper gaming VRAM that sips power could give us a cheap-to-produce card that's a solid performer at a great price; operating between the GTX 1080 and 1080 Ti for £250-£350 would be a powerful tool in redefining what the mid-range market sector is and hopefully have a positive uplift in getting the 90%+ Steam users moving up from their GTX 1060s and RX 580s - you may think tech is stagnating, but the vast majority of gamers (if Steam's metrics are an indication) aren't interested in or capable of playing at 1440p at a bazillion FPS with refresh rates to match. These people are the ones who drive the sales and profits, so catering to them
Even if Navi comes with HBM2 and therefore will cost upwards of £400, it's not any indication that things are stagnant; it may feel static to you because the performance metrics of an actual product you want to buy won't have moved on much, but the technology behind the scenes is a big step forward which will bring about positive change in the future.
Arcturus is the brand new architecture coming in 2020. That will replace everything AMD has. Similarly, I see Nvidia waiting until then to release RTX 2100 on 7nm to rain on Arcturus's parade. THEN we will see what the performance is, what the prices are and whether or not PC gaming has truly stagnated.
Even though it's built on 7nm, it's still based on GCN. It may be a lean machine with all of Vega's compute stuff ripped out and paired with GDDR6, but there's only so far GCN can go. Small die with proper gaming VRAM that sips power could give us a cheap-to-produce card that's a solid performer at a great price; operating between the GTX 1080 and 1080 Ti for £250-£350 would be a powerful tool in redefining what the mid-range market sector is and hopefully have a positive uplift in getting the 90%+ Steam users moving up from their GTX 1060s and RX 580s - you may think tech is stagnating, but the vast majority of gamers (if Steam's metrics are an indication) aren't interested in or capable of playing at 1440p at a bazillion FPS with refresh rates to match. These people are the ones who drive the sales and profits, so catering to them
Even if Navi comes with HBM2 and therefore will cost upwards of £400, it's not any indication that things are stagnant; it may feel static to you because the performance metrics of an actual product you want to buy won't have moved on much, but the technology behind the scenes is a big step forward which will bring about positive change in the future.
Arcturus is the brand new architecture coming in 2020. That will replace everything AMD has. Similarly, I see Nvidia waiting until then to release RTX 2100 on 7nm to rain on Arcturus's parade. THEN we will see what the performance is, what the prices are and whether or not PC gaming has truly stagnated.
Soldato
Navi with 8GB GDDR6, single 8-pin power. The Vega 56 equivalent is 10% faster than the GTX 1080 and costs £299, the Vega 64 equivalent trades blows with the GTX 1080 Ti for £379. Which, incidentally, would give it comparable traditional (i.e. non RTX) performance to the RTX 2080 for half the price...
This dreamland of mine is so cosy and warm
Don
I'm fairly confident we will see a full product refresh with Navi as the 6xx series, and likely at least a respin/rebrand as a 7xx series before Arcturus lands.
Soldato
Now this is what I thought Polaris 30 was all about, leaving Navi to directly replace Vega. But given that the Polaris 30 card is the RX 590, it's looking more likely it'll be the only product based on the respin (barring some OEM stuff maybe) and exists purely to satisfy the GloFo wafer agreement. Maybe AMD has something planned for GloFo's 12nm and wanted to do a test product first?
But crikey, even if Navi only matches Vega in performance, pushing that as the RX 600 seriously raises the bottom end of the performance spectrum and gives Arcturus a big job to occupy the next tier up.
Don
IF (and it's a big If) Navi is still GCN, then it is the final iteration taking everything that they've learned and minimizing whatever bottlenecks they've discovered (which makes sense if Arcturus is the ground up redesign to move things on from those limitations).
"Polaris" GCN obviously still has some mileage (both with the "new" RX590) but also the 2560 Shader/384-bit Xbox part) - it's not outside the realms of possibility for a 384-bit GCN based Navi part to match or beat vega parts.
AMD also need some low-end parts. RX560 was terrible from a price/performance point of view - simply to costly to produce (whether due to scaling a RX570 down - as is essentially half an RX570). RX550 again was even worse ~$20 cheaper launch price, but almost half the performance of a RX560.
"Esports" cards whilst not a big seller in the section of the market represented on these forums, sell by the bucketload to oems, and in other areas of the world (E.g. China etc)
"Polaris" GCN obviously still has some mileage (both with the "new" RX590) but also the 2560 Shader/384-bit Xbox part) - it's not outside the realms of possibility for a 384-bit GCN based Navi part to match or beat vega parts.
AMD also need some low-end parts. RX560 was terrible from a price/performance point of view - simply to costly to produce (whether due to scaling a RX570 down - as is essentially half an RX570). RX550 again was even worse ~$20 cheaper launch price, but almost half the performance of a RX560.
"Esports" cards whilst not a big seller in the section of the market represented on these forums, sell by the bucketload to oems, and in other areas of the world (E.g. China etc)