Both will sort their drivers out. There's no doubt that if this is successful manufacturers will want to sell Kaveri APU systems running SteamOS. Valve's hardware might be something a bit higher if it's to compete with the next gen consoles.
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AMD Desktop Kaveri APU With 13 CUs Enabled Radeon R5 M200 (832 Stream Processors) GPU Spotted
- Thread starter Boomstick777
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Both will sort their drivers out. There's no doubt that if this is successful manufacturers will want to sell Kaveri APU systems running SteamOS. Valve's hardware might be something a bit higher if it's to compete with the next gen consoles.
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I'm not sure Linus Torvalds would agree with you there.
I wasn't making the claim, just repeating the "conventional wisdom" I heard on another rumour thread; if it turns out to be incorrect then that's awesome.
Game engines don't really lend themselves well to that style of multithreading its all well and good saying game developers should better thread their code but by its nature its not something that works that way very well compared to say media encoding or other bulk data processing.
While the nature of the game sitting on top of the engine can have some effect on how well additional cores are utilised the engine itself will have large amounts of code that needs to be processed in a specific order and within very rigid time frame not lending itself to multi-threading very well.
That would mean one of two things, either ARM CPU and separate Nvidia discrete GPU (unlikely)
Or a Tegra Chip, which compared with AMD / Intel APU's is an absolute joke, Bejeweled 2 is probably not what Steam have in mind for a gaming Box
It may well be a Tegra Chip, but a much better solution is an APU for a proper gaming box.
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This is what a game developer said when talking about 8 core AMD CPUs vs quad i5s.
"This (Sony) approach of more cores, lower clock, but out-of-order execution will alter the game engine design to be more parallel. If games want to get the most from the chips then they have to go 'wide'... they cannot rely on a powerful single-threaded CPU to run the game as first-gen PS3 and Xbox 360 games did. So, I would probably go for the AMD as well, as this might better match a console port of a game... based on what we know so far."
"This (Sony) approach of more cores, lower clock, but out-of-order execution will alter the game engine design to be more parallel. If games want to get the most from the chips then they have to go 'wide'... they cannot rely on a powerful single-threaded CPU to run the game as first-gen PS3 and Xbox 360 games did. So, I would probably go for the AMD as well, as this might better match a console port of a game... based on what we know so far."
Its Sony who are also the first to realise that Multithreading is the only way to go now if you want to be on the PS4.
http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/planetside-2-dev-calls-ps4-amd-chip-challenge-work/
This could very well mean re-engineering game development tools and engines.
mmm'good!
Thing is you can't take a game engine and force it to "go wide", I see a lot of this talk about re-engineering engines from people who really should know better.
While increasingly complex physics, AI, etc. will help uptake of utilisation of additional cores theres just so much that you simply can't apply out of order execution to there simply is no way to re-engineer for it.
Kaveri however being based on Steamroller will side step this issue as its been designed in to be able to boost 1 and 2 thread priorities when needed, without having to wait until other threads become idle (which is what holds piledriver, etc. back) and in theory Steamroller based CPUs should be competitive in games that depend highly on single threaded performance.
While increasingly complex physics, AI, etc. will help uptake of utilisation of additional cores theres just so much that you simply can't apply out of order execution to there simply is no way to re-engineer for it.
Kaveri however being based on Steamroller will side step this issue as its been designed in to be able to boost 1 and 2 thread priorities when needed, without having to wait until other threads become idle (which is what holds piledriver, etc. back) and in theory Steamroller based CPUs should be competitive in games that depend highly on single threaded performance.
These are game developers talking though, not commentators.
For certain, what holds back Piledriver is typically one core stuck at 100% and the other cores, even if they're being used by other threads, often as low as 30%. That's why Piledriver gains so much with a 4.5GHz+ overclock as it frees up the overloaded core.
For certain, what holds back Piledriver is typically one core stuck at 100% and the other cores, even if they're being used by other threads, often as low as 30%. That's why Piledriver gains so much with a 4.5GHz+ overclock as it frees up the overloaded core.
Yeah I get it, it may be difficult for some, but what I don't believe in is the word "impossible" or "can't be done"
In my mind, and I don't for a second pretend to be in any way an expert, devs have been far to comfortable to do it the easy way.
I think I have said it before, this is exactly the sort of "no option kick up the back side" that has been needed for far to long.
There is only so much faster a single thread can get, even Intel are stagnating on that front, the only way forward now to gain performance is to go wide.
Where money, time and plain bone idleness is concerned nothing moves forward unless its forced to, Multicore CPU's have been around for 10 years tempting devs to do more, the carrot hasn't worked, here comes the stick.
Is this ever actually going to be of use to gamers? Right now it seems a total waste to have iGPUs that no high end gamer will ever use taking up huge numbers of transistors on high end CPUs. You simply don't buy a high end CPU and then use integrated graphics. It would make more sense to make high-end CPUs have no iGPU and have low-mid end CPUs have the best iGPU possible for those on a budget. At least today that is, but I can't see iGPUs ever being more powerful than discrete GPUs anyway and hence having any place on high end CPUs.
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Not a great fan of the notion that devs haven't pushed threading more out of laziness or being too comfortable - the lengths some of the big names behind idtech, unreal, etc. engines go to eek out extra performance, optimisations, etc. certainly don't deserve to be branded that way heh let alone deserve the stick.
Agreed, but those are not necessarily who i'm referring to, the biggest problem is with MMO's who still use DX9 engines.
Later games built on Frost Byte, Unreal, Cryengine.... do rather better in Multithreading, Crysis 3, BF3, Tomb Raider.... even Farcry3 don't bottleneck the GPU, often even on AMD CPU's. a lot of MMO DX9 games do, even on Intel CPU's, and you can see why when you watch just one thread maxed with the rest sitting virtually idle, Planet Side 2 does exactly that.
Having said that, there is always room for improvement even with the best engines.
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depends on what can be don't with it, there are already tools out there that make use of the iGPU to boost the Discrete GPU, granted they don't work all that well, yet. but you see my point
AMD themselves could also do something along those lines with this, Hybrid Cross-Fire, iGPU paired up with any AMD Discrete GPU to boost it.
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I was thinking this too, but am holding back to see if they are releasing a new socket now before planning the rest of the build.
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Hopefully it'll pan out like people want.
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Soldato
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Rroff your not seeing the wood from the trees. If you dont force some people to change their ways then they will continue coding like they have always done.
It may be a challenge now but hopefully it will breed a new generation of parallel development. Keyboards have thier place but look how everyone embraces the touchscreen now it on lots of devices. Hell my 14 month old girl can navigate round the ipad well - resistance is futile!!!
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That's like a low league football coach talk who plays down the middle!
This is apt. Look how the overall speed has tapered off, the core 2 range could hit 4 Ghz and they are still releasing better chips but around 3 Ghz out of the box. Raw single core grunt has had it's day but until developers start utilising more threads/cores it will stagnate not innovate.
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Caporegime
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On silicon perhaps.
But Intels stagnating could be down to the crazy things they're doing with power consumption as that's the focus right now.
But Intels stagnating could be down to the crazy things they're doing with power consumption as that's the focus right now.