AMD : FreeSync Monitors Shipping in December – Will Cost $100 Less Than Nvidia G-Sync

[humbug]

Lots of arguing over the semantics of open-source, open-standards and propriety here. Does anyone really care that much about it, to the point where they talk with their wallet and don't buy something that uses propriety tech or is it just something to be used in arguments to take shots at each other when there's nothing new to argue about?

It will soon be Christmas.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Is Mantle "Open-Source"? Is "TrueAudio" open-source? Is "CSAA" open-source? Is "PhysX" open-source? Is "MLAA" open-source? These are all closed off to AMD/nVidia and anyone they wish to share with (including of course, NDA's). Stop making out that everything AMD do is open to all, when it clearly isn't.

nVidia said they would open up PhysX and even your man Roy said it when he was at nVidia but I guess so long as you keep putting nVidia in the Dog house and AMD in the Spotlight of enlightenment, you will only see it as you want.

Edit:

And they can claim Adaptive Sync is open source, because all they did was ask VESA to add it in the DP standard.

Again, because you really seem to badly struggle with this, Trueaudio is AMD's hardware implementation of SOMEONE ELSES TECHNOLOGY, which they licensed, Nvidia is free to license whatever they want from the same company, dozens/hundreds of other companies license audio tech from the same company.

The tech behind trueaudio is only capable of playing on AMD hardware currently because AMD is the only company that has licensed this specific tech so far, Nvidia is capable of doing so.

MLAA is NOT FREAKING AMD, Intel use it, other companies use it, it is not locked off and everyone is free to implement it, I can't actually work out who came up with MLAA to start with. All I know is AMD added the capability to use the mode with the 6xxx series, that doesn't mean they came up with it.

Mantle IS open source, how do we know? They've handed it to the two existing biggest gaming API makers and said do of it what you will.

My issue isn't that AMD is good or Nvidia is bad, it's because you posted a completely incorrect list of "closed" AMD things Nvidia can't use, when it is true for none of the things you listed for AMD and true of all the things listed for Nvidia. Nvidia not only lock out many of these things from AMD users... they go as far as to LOCK IT OUT FROM THEIR OWN USERS. TO pretend Nvidia isn't bad is simply ridiculous. YOu buy a gpu, you also buy an AMD gpu, thus now you can't use a feature on the Nvidia GPU.... because Nvidia is a lovely company and helping the industry somehow by locking out features from their own users that their own users have paid for?

Nvidia did not and has not publicly stated AMD is free to use physx, that they at one time said we would consider licensing it means nothing.

They've said the same thing about dev's being free to license the source code version of Gameworks... this was AFTER they point where they did not offer that as an option. They changed their minds because they got flak for it, of course stating someone can license it can be technically true, but if you tell a dev that gameworks without sourcecode costs 40k per game and with sourcecode costs 10million.... is it really offering it to anyone when they attach a price no one can afford?

In no way is vaguely offering to license something(with no cost mentioned and thus likely to be a situation of "we'll license it if they come up with 1 billion dollars") the same as openly stating anyone can use it. Again AMD have given Mantle code over to Kronos and told them they can do whatever they want with it and the same to DX.

In exactly what way isn't Mantle open source if AMD are giving it out freely, telling people they are allowed to use any part or all of it and do what they like with the code and telling everyone they are free to make drivers for their own version of the code?

 

[Gregster]

Open source/Open standard.... Hang me

 

[drunkenmaster]

pretty big leap there, group members are welcome to submit ideas and even code to khronos for consideration as well as vote on items for inclusion, however khronos does not distribute submitted source code to all members, there is absolutely nothing to say that AMD gave full mantle source code to khronos and that they in turn distributed it to both intel and nvidia

khronos would have course work on specs with nvidia and intel in the same way that MS do, but none of that means that either khronos or MS give out complete source code, they don't need to, they only need to give out implementation specs because OpenGL itself is not open source because OpenGL is a specification for an API, it is not the implementation of the spec

I didn't mention trueaudio, but since you brought it up; trueaudio is licenced from Cadence Tensilica and is proprietary to them, AMD have licenced it, by definition it is not an open standard, to be able to use it nvidia would also have to licence it



being a pedant, adaptive sync is part of an open standard, it isn't open source because there is no source code to give out

Again I was responding to an erroneous list from Gregster playing the "Nvidia isn't bad as they both have closed off things"... then naming a bunch of 'AMD' things that are apparently closed off to AMD. Considering the AMD ones aren't closed off from Nvidia and a couple of them aren't even AMD things that is what I'm posting about. Gregster wanted to point out AMD are just as bad as Nvidia... but using a list that was completely inaccurate.

I haven't, as Gregster suggested, claimed that everything AMD do is open, nor have I claimed trueaudio is open source.

Gregster, not me, posted a list of things he stated were closed off for AMD only. Trueaudio being licensed by AMD from someone else that would happily license the same tech to Nvidia doesn't make it AMD tech that is closed off to Nvidia. It makes it someone elses tech that AMD has implemented and Nvidia currently has not... but can do.

Mantle has been handed off and both the big players have been told they can do whatever they want with it. Should they chose to simply use Mantle and add features, then every member would have access to it.

Again either way it is neither closed off to Nvidia(as Gregster claimed) and AMD have shown they are absolutely willing to share the code with those that need it, crucially do so for free, with no limitations on what the code can be used for, they are free to change and redistribute it any way they see fit. By most peoples standards that makes the code open source in any way that matters in conversation.

Mantle as an API has provided the code to any "competitors" to use for free, with zero limitations. Nvidia/Intel are free to write drivers for Mantle once the final version is made.

 

[Gregster]

Nah, you are probably right DM... In fact, looking through Google, have AMD ever created anything? It just looks like a lot of PR guff with terms of "Worked very closely with" on everything that I thought was AMD tech.

The challenge for AMD is that they’re going to need to get developers on board to utilize the technology, something that was a continual problem for Aureal and Creative. We don’t know just how the consoles will compare – we know the XB1 has its own audio DSPs, we know less about the PS4 – but in the PC space this would be an AMD-exclusive feature, which means the majority of enthusiast games (who historically have been NVIDIA equipped) will not be able to access this technology.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7370/amd-announces-trueaudio-technology-for-upcoming-gpus

So exclusive to AMD on the PC...Hmmmm (AMD you good guy open source/standard/non proprietary type of person).

MPC: How much of the calculations are GPU-based, how much are host-based?

AMD: Any calculation AMD TrueAudio is harnessed to perform is done entirely on the AMD TrueAudio silicon.

MPC: Could TrueAudio be implemented in an APU-setup?

AMD: AMD TrueAudio could be integrated into any Graphics Core Next-based graphics chip, but it’s too early to discuss where the audio engine might appear next.

MPC: Could TrueAudio be implemented with a discrete card with the right hardware (in other words, without the need for an AMD GPU?)

AMD: AMD TrueAudio depends upon the greater GPU. TrueAudio leverages the significant bandwidth and low access latency of a Radeon’s memory pools, and that bandwidth and latency is critically important when offloading audio tasks from the CPU to the TrueAudio engine.

The Mantle API is only available as part of AMD Catalyst, for Microsoft Windows not for other operating systems such as Linux. AMD promised to support their Mantle API only for their graphics cards and APUs which are based on their Graphics Core Next microarchitecture, but not older products based on the TeraScale microarchitecture. At time of writing (July 2014) the implementation of the Mantle API is available for the following hardware:

Hmmm seems that what the PR people say and what is happening are 2 different things.

You keep on thinking that AMD are the good guys and nVidia are the bad guys though DM, I have no wish or intention to try and make you see sense, as it would be easier getting a cup of tea with the Queen.

Edit:

For the record, I honestly don't care that TrueAudio and Mantle are proprietary and fair play on AMD on this but what I care about is silly school playground talk and not seeing that both are out for money and both are as good as each other.

 

[andybird123]

I was responding directly to something you said directly to me, don't quite see how dragging gregster in to something totally unrelated really helps

in what way has it been handed off?
AMD are still developing and releasing mantle, MS and Khronos are both releasing new API's that may or may not be influenced by mantle but they are not mantle
neither nvidia nor intel have the source code for mantle, so no it is not open source in any meaningful way

I was just pointing out that a couple of things youve said are blatantly not true, why you said them is irrelevant to that

 

[Gregster]

Here comes another wall of text....

 

[Tonester0011]

don't quite see how dragging gregster in to something totally unrelated really helps

It's just increasing his word count, nearly worn out his mechanical keyboard.
Good going, brah.

 

[rolypolyman]

Jesus, you guys are amazing. All of this has what to do with, 'freesync shipping in december'. Another thread trashed by AMD/Nvidia crap. Entertaining though!

 

[malachi]

So.......is freesync coming this month or next and what kind of prices are we talking?

 

[andybird123]

So.......is freesync coming this month or next and what kind of prices are we talking?

Not this month, the only announcments so far is the Samsung 4K ones in March onwards, no pricing yet.

 

[Ian Evey]

So.......is freesync coming this month or next and what kind of prices are we talking?

We know one thing, Its definitely not free

 

[tommybhoy]

For the record, I honestly don't care that TrueAudio and Mantle are proprietary and fair play on AMD on this but what I care about is silly school playground talk and not seeing that both are out for money and both are as good as each other.

Lying through your back teeth again.

If you didn't care you wouldn't consistently bring up the proprietary spin to put AMD in the same bed as Nvidia-you still refuse to distinguish the difference because it suits-despite the guys here giving you lessons in how they differ.

A Very DX11 Game

If there is one point we want you to understand about this game it is that this is a "very DX11" driven game. By that we mean this game uses some advanced DX11 features to exploit the benefits of Microsoft DirectCompute and DirectX 11. AMD had a heavy hand in the development of this game in order to push DX11 graphics features and introduce some of AMD's own technology into the game. While some of these 3D graphical effects are AMD created, these are done under DirectCompute so that these work on both NVIDIA and AMD GPUs. There are no proprietary graphics effects in this game, everything can be rendered equally on NVIDIA or AMD GPUs given the proper DirectX feature level support. Please take note of this NVIDIA! This is how you move gaming forward which betters the entire industry, not just the Green stock price!

We love the use of open technologies based on DirectCompute and the absence of proprietary technologies that make Alien: Isolation truly a great title. Team Green and game devs please take notice of this, as this is what pushes the gaming industry forward as a whole. And that is simply good for all of us.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/11/06/alien_isolation_video_card_performance_review#.VF3nW_msW7s

Then we get FC4/Unity etc with Nvidia proprietary technologies, yeah, in gregs world-they are just as good as AMD.

 

[elmuzzy66.]

I hope there is at least one monitor out when free sync is released. Imagine the endless debate about paper launches that would follow

 

[andybird123]

Lying through your back teeth again.

If you didn't care you wouldn't consistently bring up the proprietary spin to put AMD in the same bed as Nvidia-you still refuse to distinguish the difference because it suits-despite the guys here giving you lessons in how they differ.

By guys you mean DM and by lessons you mean lies

That article and game has nothing to do with what Gregster was talking about lmao, one AMD sponsored game makes no use of AMD only tools and that means all AMD items are completely open? Pull the other one it's got bells on.

I cant believe people getting so out of their tree to attack nvidia dont even know what proprietary means. Both nvidia and AMD have proprietary tech they push. AMD have also done a few open standard things, but only because it is impossible to get the market to adopt something when you have less than 30% market share at times.

And that is the real point, for all these acusations from AMD that Nvidia are evil and that proprietary is bad for consumers (when they themselves also operate proprietary tech), the fruit of the finger pointing? 72% market share to nvidia. Nice work AMD

 

[Gregster]

Lying through your back teeth again.

If you didn't care you wouldn't consistently bring up the proprietary spin to put AMD in the same bed as Nvidia-you still refuse to distinguish the difference because it suits-despite the guys here giving you lessons in how they differ.

U wot m8?

How the hell do you deduce that I am telling lies? I don't care that AMD or nVidia has proprietary tech but I do care when people make out that one is the good guy and one is the bad guy. Who the hell are you to tell me what I think and believe? You have never met me or personally spoken with me and I find your accusations laughable and rather deplorable. Don't be a keyboard warrior and chillax a bit.

Will Freesync be an "Open Standard"? If not I don't care, if so I don't care. Will Adaptive Sync be an "Open Standard"? Of course it will, as VESA is the one's who made it an "Open Standard" in the last DP. The one thing I will say and keep saying is "I hope Freesync is as good as G-Sync, as then the guys who get it are in for a right treat". It doesn't look like it will be coming til March but when it does get here, I implore you guys who own AMD or are out and see one to give it a try. You will not regret it (if it works as well as G-Sync".

 

[tommybhoy]

Game was used as an example, we all know what gregs throwing about.

Bottom line-majority here that don't have an allegiance to either gpu-knows exactly who's locking out graphical features and who doesn't for the better of ALL gamers gaming experience, if that isn't 'better' and makes one more 'badder' in your opinions fair enough, plenty believe it's happening.

The sad part of it all is, PhysX is the best way to achieve these effects imho, it's uptake would go through the roof and yours and gregs gaming experience would better as well as the rest of us too, if it wasn't locked off.

 

[andybird123]

Physx flex directcompute version is coming in version 3.4 (currently 3.3.2). Most of the gameworks features are not locked out for AMD users.

It is funny that you start throwing around words like "majority" as though you have any actual data to back that up. The majority of people dont care, clearly.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

Lying through your back teeth again.

If you didn't care you wouldn't consistently bring up the proprietary spin to put AMD in the same bed as Nvidia-you still refuse to distinguish the difference because it suits-despite the guys here giving you lessons in how they differ.





http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/11/06/alien_isolation_video_card_performance_review#.VF3nW_msW7s

Then we get FC4/Unity etc with Nvidia proprietary technologies, yeah, in gregs world-they are just as good as AMD.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but don't AMD have better DirectCompute performance than Nvidia?
And now their technology happens, by coincidence, to use DirectCompute?

Imagine if Nvidia had better Tessellation performance than AMD and they worked with developers to put extra tessellation effects in games. Imagine the ****-storm that would cause!

 

[tommybhoy]

Physx flex directcompute version is coming in version 3.4 (currently 3.3.2)

It is funny that you start throwing around words like "majority" as though you have any actual data to back that up. The majority of people dont care, clearly.

Differing opinion.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but don't AMD have better DirectCompute performance than Nvidia?
And now their technology happens, by coincidence, to use DirectCompute?

Imagine if Nvidia had better Tessellation performance than AMD and they worked with developers to put extra tessellation effects in games. Imagine the ****-storm that would cause!

As long as there is no over use with zero tangible benefits(no 'alleged' dirty tricks), it's up to vendors to compete with comparable performance-nothing wrong with that, bring it on.