AMD getting revenge?

Gregster · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:19

Fair enough Tommy

@ Diagro, you have not derailed it and giving the OP something to consider

LtMatt · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:20

Stelly said:
It is a rock and a hard place for CD and like I said its why such proprietary technology should not happen and why these technologies should either be left to a none profit third party to innovate or both AMD and nVidia to share between them.

Games should not be just about a specific brand such as AMD or nVidia and all games devs should know better on both the Green and Red side of the GPU market. Dumbing down the hair could have been handled better by CD in the graphics menu, for example, low - med - high, but that is up to them.

I could have complained that the physics in Borderlands 2 is worse on AMD cards then on nVidia cards when I turn on physx but thats expected as physx is a nVidia technology and for one game who cares?

Stelly

Its not proprietary technology though Stelly.

TressFX revolutionizes in-game hair by using the DirectCompute programming language to unlock the massively-parallel processing capabilities of the Graphics Core Next architecture. (taken from AMD website - http://blogs.amd.com/play/2013/03/05/tomb-raider-tressfx/) DirectCompute is additionally utilized to perform the real-time physics simulations for TressFX Hair.

DirectCompute is part of Directx11, but Nvidia removed compute from their line up minus the Titan of course.

Suarez7 · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:21

I expect a comeback from NVidia next series, they aren't gonna continue to let their discrete card market share slide away from them, I'd imagine they still have bigger funding available to their discrete graphics department but don't quote me on it.

tommybhoy · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:26

andybird123 said:
And people "gaming" on APU's on facebook is in what way related to Tomb Raider?

I already said that andy, I thought I made it clear enough:

tommybhoy said:
If you think for a minute that out of those 120-140 million PC's are even remotely going to push the likes of Crysis 3 type AAA titles, then either you haven't saw the big picture or your deluded or on an agenda.

How many of the 60 million gpu's in 'gaming' Pc's are actually bottom end gpu's with less power than apu's?

Again market share(what my op in this thread challenged), goes for diddly squat unless you can fish out mid/high end gpu figures(what we all talk about@OcUK), which points to naivety/delusion/agenda or whatever.

Gregster said:
Fair enough Tommy

Stelly · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:32

LtMatt said:
Its not proprietary technology though Stelly.

TressFX revolutionizes in-game hair by using the DirectCompute programming language to unlock the massively-parallel processing capabilities of the Graphics Core Next architecture. (taken from AMD website - http://blogs.amd.com/play/2013/03/05/tomb-raider-tressfx/) DirectCompute is additionally utilized to perform the real-time physics simulations for TressFX Hair.

DirectCompute is part of Directx11, but Nvidia removed compute from their line up minus the Titan of course.

DirectCompute is a small part of TressFx:

It is built on the foundation laid by AMD's work on Order Independent Transparency (OIT), and uses Per-Pixel Linked-List (PPLL) data structures to manage rendering complexity and memory usage. DirectCompute is additionally used to process the physics of these strands of hair, which are affected by the character's motion, and elements such as wind and water/rain. TressFX will be implemented at least on the PC version of the upcoming Tomb Raider.

I bet pound to a pinch of salt that this technology is intellectual property of AMD and would have to be licensed from AMD and from the above quote you will see that DirectCompute is a small part of the larger TressFx technology.

Stelly

Gregster · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:37

Suarez7 said:
I expect a comeback from NVidia next series, they aren't gonna continue to let their discrete card market share slide away from them, I'd imagine they still have bigger funding available to their discrete graphics department but don't quote me on it.

I hope you are right. Slightly off topic but I was hunting earlier for some TWIMTBP titles and looks like Nvidia is quiet in the future. I hope there is plenty of games coming and I am just typing it in wrong.

Suarez7 · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:39

Gregster said:
I hope you are right. Slightly off topic but I was hunting earlier for some TWIMTBP titles and looks like Nvidia is quiet in the future. I hope there is plenty of games coming and I am just typing it in wrong.

I don't even think Nvidia is any trouble, if so they would lower prices and offer much better bundles than the F2P games one. I think Gibbo said the other day the NVidia cards still fly off the shelves anyway.

Gregster · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:47

Suarez7 said:
I don't even think Nvidia is any trouble, if so they would lower prices and offer much better bundles than the F2P games one. I think Gibbo said the other day the NVidia cards still fly off the shelves anyway.

Absolutely agree that Nvidia isn't in danger. I can't see Project Shield being a huge hit but time will tell. I do want some TWIMTBP titles and I struggled to find any.

LtMatt · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:48

Stelly said:
DirectCompute is a small part of TressFx:

I bet pound to a pinch of salt that this technology is intellectual property of AMD and would have to be licensed from AMD and from the above quote you will see that DirectCompute is a small part of the larger TressFx technology.

Stelly

The AMD rep was responding to Humbug (from this forum) when he said AMD should make TressFX proprietary. Nvidia have only themselves to blame for removing Microsoft's DirectX11 DirectCompute API capability from their current cards.

PhysicsMan94 · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:51

Suarez7 said:
I expect a comeback from NVidia next series, they aren't gonna continue to let their discrete card market share slide away from them, I'd imagine they still have bigger funding available to their discrete graphics department but don't quote me on it.

I'm not sure, they seem to be pouring a lot of funding into mobile technology (e.g. Project Shield), as pretty much every other tech company seems to be doing these days.

Still, I don't think Nvidia are in any trouble - I always seem to go for their GPUs as I know that they're reliable and perform great. I really don't think they've lost this round to AMD anyway, sure AMD have gone full steam ahead and produced pretty good GPUs this year, but Nvidia's mid-range GPUs still perform just as well (if not better) than AMDs. A look at any largely non-biased benchmarking results will show this.

Bacon? · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:51

If OpenCL can do the same as PhysX, then why can't AMD cards do as well as Nvdia cards in PhysX supported parts?

Or am I just missing something, ie a brain lol

Stelly · 14 Mar 2013 at 12:58

LtMatt said:
The AMD rep was responding to Humbug (from this forum) when he said AMD should make TressFX proprietary. Nvidia have only themselves to blame for removing Microsoft's DirectX11 DirectCompute API capability from their current cards.

Fair enough, lets hope that nVidia get their act together with newer drivers, the company said that they were not given the game source code before launch to optimise the drivers for the game (which might have been AMD trying to get some good publicity with performance).

Bacon? said:
If OpenCL can do the same as PhysX, then why can't AMD cards do as well as Nvdia cards in PhysX supported parts?

Or am I just missing something, ie a brain lol

I was thinking that, why can't both nVidian and AMD just use OpenCL instead of them both having TressFx (AMD) and Physx (Nvidia)

Stelly

Stelly · 14 Mar 2013 at 13:00

Bacon? said:
If OpenCL can do the same as PhysX, then why can't AMD cards do as well as Nvdia cards in PhysX supported parts?

Or am I just missing something, ie a brain lol

I was just thinking about that some more and I think its because nVidia probably pay for Physx to be implemented for their cards and so implementing OpenCL for AMD is not funded and not implemented as people never moan about the pyhsics in games not being 100% as good as Physx, which I agree with...

Stelly

humbug · 14 Mar 2013 at 13:06

Gregster said:
You could always sell your 680's and get three 7970's for the same money. Win win for you

If issues are that bad with Nvidia, this is what I would do.

Edit:

The PS3 has a modified 7800 and the Xbox 360 has roughly the same. Games work/worked pretty well on both AMD and Nvidia (depending on devs) and I see no reason why they wouldn't work just as well for future PS4 and Xbox iterations, ported to PC.

The xBox 360 has an ATI Xenos, its a GPU specifically designed for the xBox, the PS3 has an Nvidia GPU that is off the shelf, all be it modified. both had specially designed CPU's.

Porting always was and still is not straightforward.

The PS4 has off the shelf AMD GPU and CPU, having said that the GPU is GCN while the CPU is an 8 core Jaguar, not Bulldozer, Piledriver or Steamroller.
I wrote a litte "release to consumers" article on it in the CPU room.

The new xBox will very likely be an AMD GCN GPU. CPU probably as well.

That will make real porting a reality.

wolvers · 14 Mar 2013 at 13:08

I sometimes wonder where on earth some of the drivel on this forum comes from.

humbug · 14 Mar 2013 at 13:10

LtMatt said:
The AMD rep was responding to Humbug (from this forum) when he said AMD should make TressFX proprietary. Nvidia have only themselves to blame for removing Microsoft's DirectX11 DirectCompute API capability from their current cards.

And wow didn't i get a kick in the teeth for suggesting that, eh?

LtMatt · 14 Mar 2013 at 13:11

humbug said:
And wow didn't i get a kick in the teeth for suggesting that, eh?

Hehe i know yours was a bit of tounge in cheek. I was just trying to correct a bit of the misinformation posted about TressFX being proprietary technology and Nvidia being locked out from it.

humbug · 14 Mar 2013 at 13:13

LtMatt said:
Hehe i know yours was a bit of tounge in cheek. I was just trying to correct a bit of the misinformation posted about TressFX being proprietary technology and Nvidia being locked out from it.

Yeah i know

Gregster · 14 Mar 2013 at 13:16

humbug said:
The xBox 360 has an ATI Xenos, its a GPU specifically designed for the xBox, the PS3 has an Nvidia GPU that is off the shelf, all be it modified. both had specially designed CPU's.

Porting always was and still is not straightforward.

The PS4 has off the shelf AMD GPU and CPU, having said that the GPU is GCN while the CPU is an 8 core Jaguar, not Bulldozer, Piledriver or Steamroller.
I wrote a litte "release to consumers" article on it in the CPU room.

The new xBox will very likely be an AMD GCN GPU. CPU probably as well.

That will make real porting a reality.

My point still stands. Any game that works on a console and gets a PC release, generaly works well on both AMD and Nvidia GPU's. The coding goes well above my knowledge and I can see your point but I can't see game devs alienating over 50% (I can't be bothered to find out how many AMD/Nvidia owners there are) of consumers.

TheRealDeal · 14 Mar 2013 at 13:19

Stelly said:
I was just thinking about that some more and I think its because nVidia probably pay for Physx to be implemented for their cards and so implementing OpenCL for AMD is not funded and not implemented as people never moan about the pyhsics in games not being 100% as good as Physx, which I agree with...

Stelly

Its because physx runs on the nvidia gpu and when using a amd card it runs on the cpu. With a powerful cpu the physx we have seen in games should run pretty well but most would tell you that nvidia make sure cpu physx is gimped to make there gpu physx look better than it is.

The message nv are putting out is simply to buy a nv gpu if you want physx.