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AMD Loses Value Crown - Best CPUs of 2021, December Edition

jigger said:
AMD will very probably beat Intel’s 13th gen with a Zen 3D revision. Intel’s 8 big cores can’t leverage the extra DDR5 well enough, and the Atom cores aren’t competitive against Zen in any way. Obviously as core counts increase AMD is in another league to Intel.

Intel need to improve massively over the next 5 years to have any chance of truly competing part for part with AMD. Some people are saying that Intel may never fully catch AMD and the company’s future now rests on denying revenue from the graphics markets to slow AMD.

Over Intels current roadmap I think AMD will pummel Intel pretty hard. 2027 onwards I think Intel will offer more competition and be a major player in the graphics market.
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Tbh I'd be supprised if Zen 3D even beats ADL considering its using the same cores with some cache tacked on, maybe in cache sensitive apps and gaming but it's not going to overturn the 40%+ MT defecit the ryzen 5 & 7 has currently which as it stands means Intel has a 2 generation lead over ryzen with the 12600k pulling a larger % gain than the 5600X has over the 2600X in MT.
 
Twinz said:
Intel "beat" AMD and lost market share anyway. Intel has proven that simply having the fastest CPU on the market doesn't mean you can overcharge your customers without losing market share.
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This is the elephant tech journalists seem hesitant to talk about.

All i have heard so far was from two sources, one not long after launch HUB said they spoke to retailers who said ALD launch was much worse than expected, one saying AMD sold more CPU's in a few hours than Intel sold in days.

More recently MLID said Intel had "regained some market share from AMD" but went on to say it was a very small amount and ADL sales had been surprisingly slow.

If you're selling 30% to your competitors 70% and you gain 5 percentage points to 35% that's something.

Beyond that, no one seems to be saying much, clearly there is info out there, but its not news worthy i guess.
 
Twinz said:
Intel "beat" AMD and lost market share anyway. Intel has proven that simply having the fastest CPU on the market doesn't mean you can overcharge your customers without losing market share.
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Well barely beat AMD in gaming. Intel are long way way from beating AMD and that is the reason why Intel are losing sales to AMD.

The trick with any sales strategy is selling for a reasonable margin and keeping costs under control. Looking at AMD’s profits prices seem about where they need to be.
 
humbug said:
This is the elephant tech journalists seem hesitant to talk about.

All i have heard so far was from two sources, one not long after launch HUB said they spoke to retailers who said ALD launch was much worse than expected, one saying AMD sold more CPU's in a few hours than Intel sold in days.

More recently MLID said Intel had "regained some market share from AMD" but went on to say it was a very small amount and ADL sales had been surprisingly slow.

If you're selling 30% to your competitors 70% and you gain 5 percentage points to 35% that's something.

Beyond that, no one seems to be saying much, clearly there is info out there, but its not news worthy i guess.
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I was talking more about zen2 days. AMD ate into Intel's market even though Intel had "the fastest" CPU.
 
Joxeon said:
Tbh I'd be supprised if Zen 3D even beats ADL considering its using the same cores with some cache tacked on, maybe in cache sensitive apps and gaming but it's not going to overturn the 40%+ MT defecit the ryzen 5 & 7 has currently which as it stands means Intel has a 2 generation lead over ryzen with the 12600k pulling a larger % gain than the 5600X has over the 2600X in MT.
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TBH AMD could beat harder with higher clocked Zen 3. AMD are currently soundly beating Intel as is.
 
jigger said:
TBH AMD could beat harder with higher clocked Zen 3. AMD are currently soundly beating Intel as is.
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If they can maintain clocks after adding the vcache, they should get back on top. That's not a given though. The prototype and the regular 5900X they demonstrated were underclocked by a good bit. They said it was done to match both CPU's clock for clock, but I wouldn't expect them to say they are still working on maintaining clocks with added vcache in such an announcement.

I expect AMD to get back on top with vcache, but we have not seen an example perform at that level yet.

They need to price them right though.
 
Joxeon said:
I guess you missed the 12600k / 12700k reviews?
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The performance numbers alone don't mean as much as you're making out. Yes, Intel have delivered an impressive performance jump with their midrange CPUs, but it actually doesn't matter in the real world.

There's only 1 circumstance where buying an Alder Lake system makes sense: you are building a system from scratch, and you can build that system for cheaper than the performance equivalent Ryzen 5000 system.

This is why Alder Lake systems are slow: very few people are actually building entirely new systems. Existing Ryzen users have an upgrade path in place, and can drop in a CPU equivalent to Alder Lake for a boatload less money; no incentive to change there. Existing Comet Lake and Rocket Lake users have no upgrade path, so they need to drop a shed load of money to get a new Alder Lake system. But they won't because gaming is GPU constrained so their existing systems game perfectly fine; no incentive to change there either.

So no sales.

This situation won't change much when the cheaper-but-not-actually-cheaper-apparently B660 and H610 boards land. Alder Lake's cost of entry will be somewhat lower sure, but again it won't be as cheap as dropping a bigger Ryzen into an existing system, nor worth the investment for existing Intel users. So still, it's only those building from scratch who would benefit from Alder Lake, again assuming the entire Alder Lake system costs less than the performance-equivalent Ryzen system.

AMD are selling every Ryzen 5000 they can get out the door, same can't be said about Alder Lake.
 
LePhuronn said:
The performance numbers alone don't mean as much as you're making out. Yes, Intel have delivered an impressive performance jump with their midrange CPUs, but it actually doesn't matter in the real world.

There's only 1 circumstance where buying an Alder Lake system makes sense: you are building a system from scratch, and you can build that system for cheaper than the performance equivalent Ryzen 5000 system.

This is why Alder Lake systems are slow: very few people are actually building entirely new systems. Existing Ryzen users have an upgrade path in place, and can drop in a CPU equivalent to Alder Lake for a boatload less money; no incentive to change there. Existing Comet Lake and Rocket Lake users have no upgrade path, so they need to drop a shed load of money to get a new Alder Lake system. But they won't because gaming is GPU constrained so their existing systems game perfectly fine; no incentive to change there either.

So no sales.

This situation won't change much when the cheaper-but-not-actually-cheaper-apparently B660 and H610 boards land. Alder Lake's cost of entry will be somewhat lower sure, but again it won't be as cheap as dropping a bigger Ryzen into an existing system, nor worth the investment for existing Intel users. So still, it's only those building from scratch who would benefit from Alder Lake, again assuming the entire Alder Lake system costs less than the performance-equivalent Ryzen system.

AMD are selling every Ryzen 5000 they can get out the door, same can't be said about Alder Lake.
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your right that Zen has the AM4 platform to bring AMD in extra sales but what happens when Zen 4 arrives with expensive CPUs expensive X670 boards and only DDR5? Will no one buy these either?
 
Joxeon said:
your right that Zen has the AM4 platform to bring AMD in extra sales but what happens when Zen 4 arrives with expensive CPUs expensive X670 only board and only DDR5? Will no one buy these either?
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It's entirely possible. Then again AMD may have a little fortune on their side. Raptor Lake isn't going to be much of an uplift over Alder Lake, but Zen 4 will be a significant uplift over Zen 3. Furthermore, AM5 is the start of a new platform generation, whereas Raptor Lake will be Intel's usual one-year dead end.

Existing Alder Lake users will have the Raptor Lake upgrade path, so that argument still applies. Everybody else will be building systems from scratch, so best performance for your money also still applies. However, AMD have the proven track record of AM4's longevity in the bank, so there will be a lot of people weighing up the cons of an AMD system costing initially more against the pros of multi-generational CPU upgrades. That's certainly the way I'd go.

Things will be much more interesting this time next year.
 
Tiggerlator said:
So you think intel is screwed for the next 5 years? do you know something we don't or is it just crap?
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All it takes is 2 seconds to look at Intel's CPU and process node history these past five years and a modicum of intellect to see that Intel's design direction is unsustainable. It's at least 2 years until Meteor Lake comes out, and that's still a hybrid design likely constrained by ridiculous power requirements.

So yes, Intel are possibly screwed for the next 5 years until they can sort out their manufacturing processes. Until then they'll turn their designers' genius vision into hot shadow if it's potential. No, history shows us it's not crap.

Tiggerlator said:
Wait while AM5 comes out, with new socket and ram. Then we will see how much love for AMD you have when you are forced to sell your board chip and ram to switch. When everyone tries selling at once to switch, your old stuff won't be worth **** as it will be a buyers market, not a sellers.
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This literally happens all the time, not sure why it's suddenly a major sticking point now. Oh wait, somebody said a bad thing about Intel so of course everything Intel users had to endure for years suddenly doesn't matter when it can be used to attack AMD.

Jesus wept, fanboyism should be classified as a sickness.

Tiggerlator said:
Not forgetting of course, your expensive coolers probably won't work on AM5 without adapters or a new cooler all together.
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AM5? What, the new socket with mounting layout and z-height that's confirmed by AMD to be backwards-compatible with AM4? The socket layout that will support all AM4 coolers? That AM5?

Tiggerlator said:
Everyone will scramble to buy DDR5 too which will either drive the price up or dry the market of the stuff.
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Yeah, because DDR5 is so plentiful right now to populate those Alder Lake boards.

Tell you what, do a bit of reading before you start posting in a mouth-foamed frenzy.
 
Tbf if you have any of the last couple of gen Intel or AMD chips then there is no need to buy Zen 4 or RPL, I won't be swapping my 5800X for a couple to years yet as we've already seen in the ADL reviews that games are already mostly GPU bound at 1080p so will take a few years and better GPUs before any of those CPUs need an upgrade for 1440p or above gaming and by then we may actually have some decent and cheap DDR5.
 
Joxeon said:
Tbf if you have any of the last couple of gen Intel or AMD chips then there is no need to buy Zen 4 or RPL, I won't be swapping my 5800X for a couple to years yet as we've already seen in the ADL reviews that games are already mostly GPU bound at 1080p so will take a few years and better GPUs before any of those CPUs need an upgrade for 1440p or above gaming and by then we may actually have some decent and cheap DDR5.
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If rumours are true AMD at least with an MCM design will double performance, possibly Nvidia too with a gigantic behemoth of a GPU, can't wait to see that slab of silicon.....
 
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