AMD Navi 23 ‘NVIDIA Killer’ GPU Rumored to Support Hardware Ray Tracing, Coming Next Year

KungFuSpaghetti · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:08

EastCoastHandle said:
Hey buddy, psssst, over here...
AMD has not released a TI equilevant/competitor in several years.
But keep it to yourself. You wouldn't want people to think that you didn't know that.

I'm sure if they had something good enough to compete they would have released something, but they didn't.

Look, I hope they pull a ryzen and knock it out the park and give us some options. They seem to be heading in the right direction, but I just don't see it happening this time.

EastCoastHandle · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:11

shankly1985 said:
It's a feature that is mostly designed for APUs and users that want that extra bit of performance and don't care about image quality. It actually works quite well in APex Legends the faster you move the mouse the more FPS you gain.

They are a difference in labelling up a feature to do something than doing something behind the scene

He knew that and knew better because he had to watch the video in order to post it on the forum. But he will still try. Until he's called out for it. Which is the same method of operation as Nvidia.

humbug · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:13

Th0nt said:
That's the other gem, the card costs under $400 and the nvidia is a fat chunk extra (not value IMO ~ 20% better for 75% more £)

Mad isn't it?

Having said that, and this today, just now in fact. 2070 Super #5, 5700XT at #6, another one at #7 and a 2070 at #12.... yeah ok

But where is the 2080 Super? Perhaps people aren't that daft afterall.

gpuerrilla · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:34

humbug said:
Mad isn't it?

Having said that, and this today, just now in fact. 2070 Super #5, 5700XT at #6, another one at #7 and a 2070 at #12.... yeah ok But where is the 2080 Super? Perhaps people aren't that daft afterall.

Good spot. Maybe its not as crazy as we think.

Even if a new Navi on RDNA2 is 1.5 to 2 times better than the 5700XT its gonna be around the sweet spot needed.

Satchfanuk · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:52

Twinz said:
I always thought of AMD as using the "brute force" method while Nvidia use the "software tricks" method.

I don't really care how it's done though, as long as it looks good, offers good price/performance, and isn't totally ridiculous with power draw.

Better standby then with the fire extinguishers for Ampere with the 350W power draw

sideways14a · 2 Aug 2020 at 15:55

Its interesting about the reported power draws of both sides cards, especially nvidia - its almost as if each side knows the performance they will be up against and have tried to turn up the dial as much as poss to be right at the top of all those tables......

bru · 2 Aug 2020 at 16:07

LoadsaMoney said:
AMDs gona smash em this time

Looking at the dented reference 5700xt card, I suppose the next logical step is to smash one.
Might be a hard sell though, you open the box and the card falls out in bits.

humbug · 2 Aug 2020 at 16:08

Th0nt said:
Good spot. Maybe its not as crazy as we think.

Even if a new Navi on RDNA2 is 1.5 to 2 times better than the 5700XT its gonna be around the sweet spot needed.

Its the 60Hz 1080P cards that sell best, see RX 580, you keep an eye on those bestsellers lists the 580 is consistently #1, next its top of the mid range cards that sell best, the top of the range cards, the 2080S and 2080TI it doesn't look like they actually sell that many and when you have a limited wafer supply you want to use as much of it as you can for that higher middle section.

The 60Hz 1080P cards can be older architectures on heavily discounted older lithography nodes, 12nm RX 580s....... those dies probably only cost a few $ from a wafer.

humbug · 2 Aug 2020 at 16:21

RE^^^^
I use _____.com, the US site, much larger more relevant market.....

shankly1985 · 2 Aug 2020 at 16:24

humbug said:
Its the 60Hz 1080P cards that sell best, see RX 580, you keep an eye on those bestsellers lists the 580 is consistently #1, next its top of the mid range cards that sell best, the top of the range cards, the 2080S and 2080TI it doesn't look like they actually sell that many and when you have a limited wafer supply you want to use as much of it as you can for that higher middle section.

The 60Hz 1080P cards can be older architectures on heavily discounted older lithography nodes, 12nm RX 580s....... those dies probably only cost a few $ from a wafer.

Then you have forums like this that will have you believing that the high ends GPUs are the best sellers. Hardly anyone wants to pay 2080 or Ti prices.

The lower end and mid range will always be the deciding factor in most PC gamers price range.

5700XT or 2070 is what high end users are buying 580 and 1060 is entry level to the PC master race.

While I want big Navi to blow away the competition truth is ill just be happy paying a price that is a nice upgrade over my Vega64.

humbug · 2 Aug 2020 at 16:38

shankly1985 said:
Then you have forums like this that will have you believing that the high ends GPUs are the best sellers. Hardly anyone wants to pay 2080 or Ti prices.

The lower end and mid range will always be the deciding factor in most PC gamers price range.

5700XT or 2070 is what high end users are buying 580 and 1060 is entry level to the PC master race.

While I want big Navi to blow away the competition truth is ill just be happy paying a price that is a nice upgrade over my Vega64.

I think of 2070 - 2070S - 2080, 5700 - 5700XT as high end, 2080S - 2080TI as enthusiast. but most people don't consider an "Enthusiast end" so i just stick with tradition ranking.

AMD could have made a 60 CU RDNA1 GPU, the 5700XT die size is 251mm2, that's tiny, GPU power is ~200 Watt's, the 2080S is ~250 Watts, a 60 CU 5700XT would have been ~300 Watts with a 375mm2 die which is still not large, and AMD have made 300 Watt GPU's before....

Maybe they didn't because of Wafer supply constraints and as i said 2080TI level cards don't sell well.

I do want AMD to make the best card they can with RDNA2, i think the mindshare of having a really fast card in your product range is worth a lot.

humbug · 2 Aug 2020 at 16:58

Well.....

https://wccftech.com/amd-7nm-wafer-...-7nm-capacity-at-tsmc-currently-fully-booked/

Apple are moving to 5nm, AMD gobbled up all spare 7nm capacity that left doubling their 7nm wafer supply for the second half of this year...

Satchfanuk · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:21

humbug said:
Well.....

https://wccftech.com/amd-7nm-wafer-...-7nm-capacity-at-tsmc-currently-fully-booked/

Apple are moving to 5nm, AMD gobbled up all spare 7nm capacity that left doubling their 7nm wafer supply for the second half of this year...

Not really a surprise considering all of the products AMD is making on 7nm right now, from the PS5 & XBsX chips, all of the current CPUs plus ramping of Zen 3, current and next gen GPUs. I also expect to see the IO die on Zen 3 to be 7nm.

Tbh, AMD could probably have used even more capacity if it was available.

It's no wonder Nvidia didn't get a look in and had to go crawling to Samsung

humbug · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:28

Satchfanuk said:
Not really a surprise considering all of the products AMD is making on 7nm right now, from the PS5 & XBsX chips, all of the current CPUs plus ramping of Zen 3, current and next gen GPUs. I also expect to see the IO die on Zen 3 to be 7nm.

Tbh, AMD could probably have used even more capacity if it was available.

It's no wonder Nvidia didn't get a look in and had to go crawling to Samsung

I just realized that's actually an old link.

Since then HiSilicon (Huawie) have been dropped by TSMC because China stuff.... that freed up even more capacity, which was promptly gobbled up by AMD and Nvidia, AMD are now TSMC's third largest customer behind Qualcomm and Apple.

JediFragger · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:28

Satchfanuk said:
It's no wonder Nvidia didn't get a look in and had to go crawling to Samsung

It's good that they had this knockback, it may actually make them *slightly* more humble in future. Prob not though

humbug · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:38

Nvidia did get some 7nm capacity, some of what was left after Huawie got the boot.

But rumour is TSMC prioritized AMD over Nvidia, Nvidia thought they would get preferential treatment and were slapped down, the thing is as a Semiconductor consumer AMD are much larger than Nvidia and i think TSMC are more receptive to AMD anyway.

JediFragger · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:48

humbug said:
and i think TSMC are more receptive to AMD anyway.

Probably a little less, how shall I put this, Diva-ish than nVidia

humbug · 2 Aug 2020 at 17:51

JediFragger said:
Probably a little less, how shall I put this, Diva-ish than nVidia

I think AMD played a part in helping TSMC overtake Intel in becoming the world's largest fab plant.

Satchfanuk · 2 Aug 2020 at 18:14

JediFragger said:
Probably a little less, how shall I put this, Diva-ish than nVidia

That's a very polite word to describe Nvidia. The word I was thinking of begins with C

Jacky60 · 2 Aug 2020 at 18:17

humbug said:
Ya, The 5700XT is faster than people give it credit for.

Vs a 2080 Super.

BFV: 49 - 59 (+20%)
Detroit Become Human: 56 - 60 (+7%)
Call of Duty: Warzone: 61 - 66 (+8%)
Forza Horizon 4: 80 - 93 (+16%)
Hitman 2: 57 - 67 (+17%)
Red Dead Redemption 2: 33 - 39 (+18%)
Metro Exodus: 49 - 61 (+25%)
Assassin's Creed Odyssey: 38 - 46 (+20%)
PUBG: 47 - 65 (+38%)

The outlier in PUBG, which is Unreal Engine.

Average: +18%, the 5700XT is a 2560 Shader, 1950Mhz, 251mm2 GPU, the 2080 Supper has 3072 Shaders, that's 20% more.

I would suggest RDNA1 has already caught up with Nvidia, it just needs to be bigger.

That is much closer than I assumed but what struck me more was the superior AMD image quality. I assume due to different brightness settings etc but the BFV sten gun receiver and middle distance buildings stood out as noticeably better on 5700XT. Hitman and many of the games just looked more blurred with the 2080S. I'd like to understand why given the received wisdom is there's no difference in image quality between AMD/Nvidia.