Intel innovation.
That being creative accounting.
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AMD on the road to recovery.
- Thread starter humbug
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That being creative accounting.
Soldato
I thought it was proven or claimed that higher clocks would've done little/nothing because of limitations in the architecture or something? Maybe it was Igor's lab, don't remember.
Soldato
So nvidia hits 60% margins, "oh my god they are terrible". Intel has 35% margins "oh my god they are terrible". What the actual heck do you people want? lol
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Oh, if only that were true
. Intel dreams of such margins, but unfortunately, reality is brutal for them. Intel is selling their products at a loss to prevent customers from switching to AMD. Intel would be happy to have any positive margin, but we hope they will learn from AMD how business is done and that the only path to success is through hard and diligent work, not through dirty tricks and bribes.
5m 30sec on in that video, that is classic marketing miss direction, take a true fact, like for example the fact that more people are moving to lighter more moble devices that usually contain ARM based processors, take that truth and the reason for it and turn it on its head, to say people are actually moving away from these ARM devices to PC's because PC's are more desirable to people.
Instead of trying to make an argument for your product as opposed to that other guys, pretend everyone already thinks that and you're the daft one for not following that trend.
Its quite narcissistic manipulation. Its gaslighting, something sociopaths do.
Instead of trying to make an argument for your product as opposed to that other guys, pretend everyone already thinks that and you're the daft one for not following that trend.
Its quite narcissistic manipulation. Its gaslighting, something sociopaths do.
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Those are gross margins, AMD was going bankrupt with 30% margins. and Intel have a far greater expenditure to margins ratio than AMD had at the time.
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Permabanned
Intel spends too much of its budget on the marketing team, while AMD invests in engineering. That's why we have such a situation, but Intel, due to neglecting the engineering aspect, has put itself in a very uncomfortable position where even the marketing team can't help them anymore. That's what happens when you don't balance things. AMD doesn't have a strong marketing team, so they need to increase the budget for that part in order to be synchronized with the engineering side, and that's when they will further distance themselves from Intel.
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Soldato
Yeah so? So the negative part about intel's margins is that they are selling expensive stuff for cheap, while amd sells cheap stuff for more money? Oh god, intel is the devil
At least that explains why they offer so much more performance than amd at same pricepoints. Cause they don't sell them with skyhigh margins like amd does.
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Yeah so? So the negative part about intel's margins is that they are selling expensive stuff for cheap, while amd sells cheap stuff for more money? Oh god, intel is the devil
At least that explains why they offer so much more performance than amd at same pricepoints. Cause they don't sell them with skyhigh margins like amd does.
If Intel don't turn that around we wont have a competitor for AMD to worry about.
This is why i also don't join the "they should give their stuff away" crowed. Its about the right balance.
Soldato
Ah, but we don't need a competitor. AMD is our friend, Intel has done nothing the last 15 years to progress CPUs, if not for amd we would still be stuck at 4cores
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AMD's job is to make money for its self and its investors. they are no different to Intel, at least in that sense.
From another thread.
No matter how well intentioned a company may well be when it starts on its journey, success will ultimately change its culture.
So to expand on that a company might start out making products for its consumers, and in that way be consumer focused, but as it grows and grows other parties become interested in it, people who see it as something to extract money out of, people who would say i give you money to help you grow and as a reward when you grow you pay me back with interest.
That's all well and good but eventually to keep those with a view to extract money from the company happy the culture must change from consumer focused to investor focused, at that point its consumers become the thing to extract money from, they become a commodity.
There are signs in AMD's typically bad marketing and some of its pricing and product placement decisions that they are starting to view its consumer base as a commodity.
No matter how well intentioned a company may well be when it starts on its journey, success will ultimately change its culture.
So to expand on that a company might start out making products for its consumers, and in that way be consumer focused, but as it grows and grows other parties become interested in it, people who see it as something to extract money out of, people who would say i give you money to help you grow and as a reward when you grow you pay me back with interest.
That's all well and good but eventually to keep those with a view to extract money from the company happy the culture must change from consumer focused to investor focused, at that point its consumers become the thing to extract money from, they become a commodity.
There are signs in AMD's typically bad marketing and some of its pricing and product placement decisions that they are starting to view its consumer base as a commodity.
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Soldato
Ι've been seeing this since Zen 3 and that's when I completely turned my back on them. Not that they care I guess
Well maybe.
What i'm talking about is this.
RX 7900XT: $899.
1, that's not a 7900XT, its a 7800XT.
2, $900? come off it...
Don't pretend like its a 6900XT replacement for $100 off, we know its not that, we can easily see its not that.
If you want to price us out of your products AMD you do that, we just wont buy them, but to brand something as if its a higher end product with money off when in fact its a lower end cheaper product over priced is just insulting to our intelligence, that's the egregious bit, don't assume we are stupid.
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That card is now $750.
They should have just called it what it is, priced it at $750, $100 more than the card its replaced, be honest about it, say look its more expensive, we know, our costs have gone up, it needs to be done, but its got AV1, its got 4GB more memory so its got better longevity and we think you will like it.
They should have just called it what it is, priced it at $750, $100 more than the card its replaced, be honest about it, say look its more expensive, we know, our costs have gone up, it needs to be done, but its got AV1, its got 4GB more memory so its got better longevity and we think you will like it.
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Soldato
That's not the first time they did that, and kinda every company pulls that crap anyways. In the CPU space I think Intel pulled that first with the 9900k, naming it i9 and increasing the price tag. My biggest problem with AMD isn't the marketing stunts they pull, everyone does that. My problem is - mainly - Zen 3. Not only the big fat juicy 50% MSRP increase in their mainstream CPUs, but the fact that they actually used most of their chips for the server market meant that supply was low resulting in Zen 3 skyrocketing in actual market prices. The 2020 R5 cost exactly twice as much as the 2019. I get that prioritizing the server market makes sense for them, but im not a shareholder now am I?
Also that mobo support...well yeah, that went great, had to wait 2 years for my high end B350 to get support for Zen 3. That was pretty horrible as well, and I assume it's for the above reasons. They didn't have the supply to meet the demand and if they allowed more people with old mobos to upgrade, that would make the problem even worse..
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I will never forget how long Intel recycled architectures, sold them as new, and still demanded new motherboards. I will also not forget the price of their 6+ core processors, not to mention the false benchmark they conducted with the 9900k. I had provided the link on the previous page. Intel's anti-competitive practices have disgusted me in general. They are in their current position because of everything they have done - struggling in all segments, forced to sell products at a loss, and more. They chose that path themselves, so they are to blame. Let them suffer and figure things out on their own. I will not help or defend them.
Intel went from a 6 core flagship to an 8 core flagship, i7 8700K to i9 9900K, i don't have a problem with that branding, you are getting more and Intel are alright for communicating that.
Intel don't tend to try and pull the wool over their consumers eyes with branding, that's an Nvidia speciality and i don't want AMD learning that from them.
Zen 3 was more expensive, but Zen 2 was cheap, in the context of pricing it wasn't that bad, Intel had some better offerings than AMD in the lower end, still do, i do have a problem with that but Intel didn't have 12 and 16 core CPU's and in my case the 5800X was cheaper and better than the 10900K.
Intel don't tend to try and pull the wool over their consumers eyes with branding, that's an Nvidia speciality and i don't want AMD learning that from them.
Zen 3 was more expensive, but Zen 2 was cheap, in the context of pricing it wasn't that bad, Intel had some better offerings than AMD in the lower end, still do, i do have a problem with that but Intel didn't have 12 and 16 core CPU's and in my case the 5800X was cheaper and better than the 10900K.
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Soldato
Well the 7700k --> 8700k was a bigger jump than the 8700k ---> 9900k in terms of performance, yet the priced remained the same. That's why I despised the 9900k as well